[sixrings]

Try your best to remember that great BRT system you have in Ottawa..

 

[sixrings]

BTW I was on the Lawrence / Dixon bus this morning. The bus was so full we just drove past people waiting at bus stops... I really wish we hadnt killed Transit City.. It seems that there are some routes that would be great candidates for LRT...

 

[Justin10000]

Thanks! And yeah, it'll be nice to get a feel for different transit systems. I think Berlin is a really good example of what can be done around transit, because entire districts of the city have been rebuilt from scratch with transit as the focus of the district.

And take notice of the surface LRT systems. You'll learn quite a bit.

 

[Tewder]

Thanks! And yeah, it'll be nice to get a feel for different transit systems. I think Berlin is a really good example of what can be done around transit, because entire districts of the city have been rebuilt from scratch with transit as the focus of the district.

Such a simple concept, isn't it?! You think this'd be a no-brainer for a city like Toronto with the kind of consistent population growth it experiences and is expected to continue to get. The city is expanding and growing, east and west, but it is doing so without the framework of mass transit. Dumb.

 

[gweed123]

Such a simple concept, isn't it?! You think this'd be a no-brainer for a city like Toronto with the kind of consistent population growth it experiences and is expected to continue to get. The city is expanding and growing, east and west, but it is doing so without the framework of mass transit. Dumb.

But in a sense it was easier for Berlin to do it. The transit infrastructure was already there, it's just they had entire neighbourhoods that had to be rebuilt from scratch. In Toronto we have neighbourhoods without the transit, in Berlin they had transit without the neighbourhood!

 

[Tewder]

Well but not quite... in many stretches where we are seeing development in Toronto, and fairly central ones too, there was neither neighbourhood nor transit existing... carte blanche in other words! I see little defense for Toronto's lack of infrastructure growth except for politics.

 

[leopetr]

Well but not quite... in many stretches where we are seeing development in Toronto, and fairly central ones too, there was neither neighbourhood nor transit existing... carte blanche in other words! I see little defense for Toronto's lack of infrastructure growth except for politics.

Indeed. It seems impossible to get transit built before it's an emergency. Queens Quay East was supposed to have a local LRT before the condos started going up. Instead, it's been delayed and the prospects for it under Ford are very grim.

Waterfront West LRT was a Lastman plan to provide transit to Liberty Village. Instead, Liberty Village got built out without transit, overwhelming the King streetcar. Waterfront West is now "scheduled" for 2030.

The only parts of Toronto that seem to be getting it right are the greenfield developments in Markham Centre (and presumably Vaughan Centre), where BRT is being put in now. Hmm.

 

[kEiThZ]

We just need a good war to clear out some areas!

 

[taal]

Indeed. It seems impossible to get transit built before it's an emergency. Queens Quay East was supposed to have a local LRT before the condos started going up. Instead, it's been delayed and the prospects for it under Ford are very grim.

Waterfront West LRT was a Lastman plan to provide transit to Liberty Village. Instead, Liberty Village got built out without transit, overwhelming the King streetcar. Waterfront West is now "scheduled" for 2030.

The only parts of Toronto that seem to be getting it right are the greenfield developments in Markham Centre (and presumably Vaughan Centre), where BRT is being put in now. Hmm.

Well downtown Markham is a good example ... I really don't see how a BRT makes a big difference in this particular case ... once can argue in 20 years the streets will be crowed (with car traffic) so a BRT actually results in improved service. That's far from the case now. So BRT or not, it's good there is bus service period ? Well there are plenty of areas throughout the GTA with 10/15 min bus service (and quite a bit better in many cases) that isn't grade separated yet still manages to be efficient. Secondly, as much as I'm against it - assuming there's a subway on Sheppard ... that's your infrastructure right there, or is this a surface vs underground debate ?

What makes some of these European cities stand out is their density ... not one specific area, I'm sure there are many parts of Toronto that are much more dense, but they're localized and spread out. We have clusters of high density nodes surrounded by extremely low density (relatively speaking). I'm guessing this isn't as common in European cities where the density is more consistent over a larger area. The areas that sparse in the GTA - which is the majority, even in Toronto, just aren't suited to transit in the sense that the majority of those who live in such areas aren't as open to it and hence drive. When you have more medium density I'm guessing that isn't the case (at least not to the same degree).

It's great we're intensifying some nodes but this will in no way make us comparable to European cities, I don't see this as a good or bad thing, but just a thing, and it does effect transit patterns.

That's not to say more corridors in the GTA can (and hopefully) benefit from some form of mass transit (whether it be subways or LRTs or BRTs).

 

[Landscape design ftw]

I guess the main question that must be raised when considering that dilemma is "will the infrastructure that we're building now be useful in a future configuration?". For BRT being upgraded to LRT, the answer is usually yes. For LRT being upgraded to HRT, the answer is usually no. I think that's where that distinction comes into play.


Bus's have they're place and in neighbourhoods where running track is mess and waste of time. When Henry ford and his board of cronies bought 30%+ of all public transit in north america back in the 30's and kaiboshed it we were bsically all screwed, when toronto failed to sign contracts for 1+kilometers of subway to be built everyyear from start till oblivion like London, Paris, New York and ahalf dozen other city's did we were screwed. were going to be constantly screwed for all time unless one generation of citizen says K F it were doing it the pricey way startin this off rite so the next buggers have the oppurtunity to continue doing it right.


During peak periods, the 95 (articulated bus) runs every 3 minutes. In addition, that section of Woodroffe carries the 174, and 172 regular buses (average rush hour frequency of about 15 mins), the 157, 186, 188, and 195 peak period buses (average rush hour frequency of about 30 mins), and the 70, 71, 73, 76, and 77 express buses (average rush hour frequency of about 15 mins).

So one transitway bus every 3 minutes, one regular route bus every 7.5 mins, one peak period bus every 7.5 minutes, and one express bus every 3 minutes. I'd say that about gives you the right frequency for a bus every 1 to 1.5 minutes. And like I said before, I've seen this section of roadway in operation, and the buses don't really slow eachother down. The biggest slowdown is waiting to turn left into Baseline station, which is restricted because of the advanced left arrow.

I have to point out emediatly that scheduling busses to coem at intervals is the most useless and impossible thing ever. I live righ by Eglinton theres 5 different busses that go right by my stop they all show up in teh same friggin minute and half period and then you are screwed for another ten minutes, yes if the bus drivers acually picked up a god damn radio which they all have in arms reach they could space and time themsevles but lets get things straigh they don't give a shit. the biggest advantage in my mind to the LRT's period is consistency buses break down all the time you stadn there and see 2 or more go by with out of service across the LED's cause the drivers gotta taek a wiked bad turd or something, and they cant keep a schedule worth a damn. If I got two busses in a row that came and left within the a 5 minute period of when they were supposed to in this city I would Brown my pants and then Ide need the not in service blazoned across across the LED's.

Its really weird that no one has mentioned the fact that streets with heavy buss traffic ontop of car traffic have a tendancy to need repaving just about 3 times as often as those with street cars, cause with street cars u get a good sub base of concrete like we should already lay under all roads, instead of the vastly inadequate 1 foot conrete joke that sees the worst pot holes in the friggin world. I havent seen a newly paved road with heavy bus traffic last more then 2-3 years before you have those pavementwaves, my area of eglinton ws repaved maybe 5 years ago and walking across 4 lanes theres got to be a nearly 4-5 inch diffence in tire ruts to middle of lane, once you get one little hole its going to go to hell so fast.

Guh posting at 5 AM sucks.

 

[Electrify]

THE CITY: Mayor must convince council to kill Transit City

Rob Ford is not a mayor of many words. He keeps it pretty close to his vest, rarely speaking on issues before committee and council, and doling out interviews and scrums in the tiniest of portions.

When pressed on matters, he points to the mandate, given him by Toronto voters, to cut the vehicle registration tax and clean up waste at city hall and various other things.

And when these matters come before council, with few exceptions Ford gets his way because for councillors, that mandate is persuasive. Ford won votes on everything from the vehicle registration tax to contracting out garbage collection.

Public transit, now, is a notable exception.

During the 2010 campaign, Ford put forward a transportation plan that included scrapping former mayor David Miller's Transit City light rail plan and replacing it with a subway along Sheppard Avenue. Immediately after taking office, Ford told reporters Transit City was "dead."

There was a great deal of talk about the implications of this over the coming months, among transit officials and councillors and between the mayor and the premier.

A memorandum of understanding was even signed, in which the province agreed to stop funding the just-started Sheppard light rail line and pour all its money into an underground Eglinton line. The TTC even established a special company to look into public-private partnerships and hired former councillor Gordon Chong to run it.

So in many ways, there has been a great deal of talk. In one important way - maybe the most important way - there has been none.

As several councillors pointed out Monday at the city's executive committee, it has been eight months since Ford declared Transit City dead, but really, he has not yet taken the steps necessary to kill it.

Those steps are simple. Just as he took the cancellation of the vehicle registration tax and his 2011 tax-freeze budget to council, Ford must ask council to approve his plans to stop Transit City. Ford must present his argument, remind councillors of the public support his plan enjoys, and corral his support.

When questioned about this after the meeting, Ford seemed unaware of the necessity of formalities such as debates and duly recorded votes and so forth.

"It was clear," the mayor explained. "I campaigned for close to a year. I was crystal clear that I wanted to build subways and I was going to kill Transit City, Streetcar City, whatever you wanted to call it. The people spoke loud and clear."

They may well have. But the people are as powerless as the mayor is to make law on their own. In order for that to happen, the mayor has to speak to council.

Ford may say that Transit City is dead. But until council weighs in and agrees, the only thing to say is, "Long Live Transit City."

http://www.insidetoronto.com/news/c...or-must-convince-council-to-kill-transit-city

I've heard various discussions on the topic, but no concrete conclusion to a very straight-forward topic: doesn't (or shouldn't) the city vote on the cancellation of the Sheppard LRT before going ahead with the new plan?

That said, if anyone is a lame duck, I'd put my money on McGuinty. Seeing as the province and feds already have spent money on the project, he should have said that the city has 3-6 months to find the funding for Sheppard, otherwise the old plan goes ahead. Instead, he played a hail marry by caving in to Ford in hopes of gaining some right of center votes, and not only did he not get those votes, but he has lost some left of center votes as well.

 

[sixrings]

I wish the option was the entire transit city, jane, eglinton, finch, sheppard, don mills. IF it was that or what FOrds choosing I would CHoose transit city... But transit City was cut back so much I didnt like it either. That being said something cut back can at least be completed in the futre. I think if I was on city council I would choose transit city and hope the rest of the funding comes for the other lines...

 

[M II A II R II K]

This route seems to have a good balance of on and off street tracks and stations.



[video=youtube;9k86lBV5824]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k86lBV5824[/video]

 

[gweed123]

This route seems to have a good balance of on and off street tracks and stations.

One thing that really struck me with that video was how few vehicles there were going in the opposite direction. I didn't actually count, but it couldn't have been more than 6 over the course of that entire video.

Does anyone know what the frequency and the ridership on this line is?

 

[M II A II R II K]

Every 15 minutes throughout the day.