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roch5220
Guest
I meant, at peak capacity, slip of the fingers.
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yinyang41
Guest
i really would like to see allen road go more south than eglinton, maybe bring it down to st. clair or davenport through the ravine
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cdl42
Guest
"I meant, at peak capacity, slip of the fingers."
Things are very, very seriously wrong if we have to wait until the point where it is physically impossible to fit another person onto the train (that means at or beyond Japanese people-pushers levels) before we start talking about relief measures. Cause that's what peak capacity is.
Things are very, very seriously wrong if we have to wait until the point where it is physically impossible to fit another person onto the train (that means at or beyond Japanese people-pushers levels) before we start talking about relief measures. Cause that's what peak capacity is.
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roch5220
Guest
Ridership on yonge won't come to that level, unless, like I mentioned before, if they expand the yonge line north. Which really, is beyond the scope of what we were discussing originally. Regardless, 'in reality' as my streetcar/lrt thing won't come into existence, I am all for the DRL, so long as when they construct it, the first phase goes beyond that as originally planned, an incorporates the EY expansion leg.
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Darkstar416
Guest
I've discussed this already, but heck, I want it said again that I can't agree with this enough. Stops should ONLY be at three places:
1.) At major cross streets
2.) Where other transit routes intersect (usually at a major cross streets anyway)
3.) At major destinations
For instance, on the 504 King, between Yonge and Parliament I'd take out the Victoria, Church and Ontario stops. However, I'd add a stop at George St to service George Brown College. So in some cases this isn't just about removing stops, but putting them in more logical places.
For the record, all of our east-west streetcar lines have 32+ stops through the downtown which is crazy. If we could bring that down to even 15 stops you might be able to convince the transport department to do some creative things at some of the stops. For instance, make them into destinations with shelters, benches, real-time info, bike stations and perhaps even special traffic lights (like in Amsterdam or Berlin) that force cars to "stop" when a streetcar's doors are open. It would be a fairly easy (and cheap) way to speed-up service on these corridors until DRL's, streetcar tunnels and ROW's are finally built.
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scarberiankhatru
Guest
"Things are very, very seriously wrong if we have to wait until the point where it is physically impossible to fit another person onto the train (that means at or beyond Japanese people-pushers levels) before we start talking about relief measures."
We're no where near as cramped as Japanese or Indian train passengers - even on the Yonge line during rush hour you can get your own pole to yourself and not be touching anyone - but we're unwilling to have our comfort zones reduced any further. Whenever subways are full, I always push my way on while others stand outside waiting for the next one and, miraculously, the crowd parts like the Red Sea and suddenly there's room in the middle of the car. In time, as more people get used to living in a crowded city and taking crowded subways, we'll probably start squishing ourselves together more, but that will only allow so many more people onto the trains. A DRL is clearly needed if any growth is expected to be accommodated.
"Ridership on yonge won't come to that level, unless, like I mentioned before, if they expand the yonge line north."
When they finish building condos in North York and subdivisions in south York Region, you might be singing a different tune. This is also excluding GTA fare integration - remove the double fare and York Regioners will totally swamp the Yonge line. But maybe Toronto's economy will collapse and then your prediction will come true. Keeping your fingers crossed?
"i really would like to see allen road go more south than eglinton"
If they're not going to extend it or get rid of it altogether (I'd much rather have no highway there than half a highway that goes nowhere), they need to turn Allen & Eglinton into a proper interchange...it's inexcusable as is. Yeah, I know it'll never happen.
We're no where near as cramped as Japanese or Indian train passengers - even on the Yonge line during rush hour you can get your own pole to yourself and not be touching anyone - but we're unwilling to have our comfort zones reduced any further. Whenever subways are full, I always push my way on while others stand outside waiting for the next one and, miraculously, the crowd parts like the Red Sea and suddenly there's room in the middle of the car. In time, as more people get used to living in a crowded city and taking crowded subways, we'll probably start squishing ourselves together more, but that will only allow so many more people onto the trains. A DRL is clearly needed if any growth is expected to be accommodated.
"Ridership on yonge won't come to that level, unless, like I mentioned before, if they expand the yonge line north."
When they finish building condos in North York and subdivisions in south York Region, you might be singing a different tune. This is also excluding GTA fare integration - remove the double fare and York Regioners will totally swamp the Yonge line. But maybe Toronto's economy will collapse and then your prediction will come true. Keeping your fingers crossed?
"i really would like to see allen road go more south than eglinton"
If they're not going to extend it or get rid of it altogether (I'd much rather have no highway there than half a highway that goes nowhere), they need to turn Allen & Eglinton into a proper interchange...it's inexcusable as is. Yeah, I know it'll never happen.
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roch5220
Guest
Maybe, but considering that its not the central core that has seen the mass job increases, the assumption that all of these people will be going south is a stretch. I wouldn't be so concerned about the new residences going up, but more the new offices going online over the next 5 years downtown that will drive it more. Its more dependant on the employment when we start discussing larger significant ridership changes.
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spmarshall
Guest
Employment is going up in the core (we're getting three new mid-rise office towers!) - and don't forget the universities, which are expanding, and the non-business employment - like the hospitals, MaRS, etc.
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scarberiankhatru
Guest
"the assumption that all of these people will be going south is a stretch."
Uh, I'm talking about a fraction of the new growth.
Uh, I'm talking about a fraction of the new growth.
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roch5220
Guest
Employment downtown has been stagnant during the 2000s after growth in the 90s. And don't forget that the university-spadina line is there as well that caters to most of the hospitals & UFT. Assuming the new offices bring new jobs, and not cannibalize off of the existing offices, and that everybody commuttes using the subway (as oppose to buying residences downtown within walking distance), 10K jobs will create additional ridership of 4.8 million a year (per 10K). But thats a lot of 'ifs', and in my conservative opinion, wouldn't create the peak capacity.
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roch5220
Guest
... and I'm talking about what would affect signficiant ridership changes that would make a difference.
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spmarshall
Guest
Your opinion on this certainly is conservative.
I guess this is peak capacity. Once we reach it, maybe, just maybe, we'll get the DRL in what? 5, 6 years?
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doady
Guest
You're assuming that the per capita ridership of the TTC stays the same, which is another "if". Per capita ridership is increasing, and has been for the last 10 years. You don't need new offices for ridership growth.
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socialwoe
Guest
Quote:"I've discussed this already, but heck, I want it said again that I can't agree with this enough. Stops should ONLY be at three places:
1.) At major cross streets
2.) Where other transit routes intersect (usually at a major cross streets anyway)
3.) At major destinations"
Translation:- Using 501 as example...
Long Branch, 30th, Kipling, Isklington, Royal York, Mimico, Park Lawn, Humber, Windermere, Parkside, Ronchesvalles, Jameson, Dufferin, Dovercourt, Shaw, Niagara, Bathurst, Spadina, John, University, Bay-Yonge, Jarvis, Parliament, River, Broadview, Carlaw, Jones, Greenwood, Coxwell-Kingston, Woodbine, Lee, Beech, Neville Park.
The stop ratio on downtown routes gradually decrease the further north (closer to the BD line) you go explaining why 506 stops are roughly 500m apart compared to seemingly inches apart on King (seriously 6 intermediates between Spadina and Yonge is overkill).
Quote: That's the whole idea of a Downtown Relief Line - relieve overcrowding of the Yonge Line.
The yonge line isn't overcrowded yet. The only way I think that it will, is if they further extend the Yonge line North."
The Yonge Line isn't overcrowded and likely wouldn't be if extended north to Steeles. All they need to do instead of extending Sheppard Line westward to Downsview is create an express line (L-shaped) running parallel to Yonge Line into York Region. Bypassing the Yonge line only connecting at Sheppard Yonge Station alleviates some pressure off the YUS while increasing usage of the Sheppard subway. Provided that the Sheppard Line convinently ends at Don Mills, the density east of Vic Park on Sheppard is slim and the density along Don Mills especially at York Mills, Lawrence, Eglinton is immense the 'Sheppard' Line could easily run down Don Mills
and become the DRL line. This would work out perfectly if SRT could be extended into Malvern then loop back along Sheppard to Don Mills -er- Fairview Stn.
1.) At major cross streets
2.) Where other transit routes intersect (usually at a major cross streets anyway)
3.) At major destinations"
Translation:- Using 501 as example...
Long Branch, 30th, Kipling, Isklington, Royal York, Mimico, Park Lawn, Humber, Windermere, Parkside, Ronchesvalles, Jameson, Dufferin, Dovercourt, Shaw, Niagara, Bathurst, Spadina, John, University, Bay-Yonge, Jarvis, Parliament, River, Broadview, Carlaw, Jones, Greenwood, Coxwell-Kingston, Woodbine, Lee, Beech, Neville Park.
The stop ratio on downtown routes gradually decrease the further north (closer to the BD line) you go explaining why 506 stops are roughly 500m apart compared to seemingly inches apart on King (seriously 6 intermediates between Spadina and Yonge is overkill).
Quote: That's the whole idea of a Downtown Relief Line - relieve overcrowding of the Yonge Line.
The yonge line isn't overcrowded yet. The only way I think that it will, is if they further extend the Yonge line North."
The Yonge Line isn't overcrowded and likely wouldn't be if extended north to Steeles. All they need to do instead of extending Sheppard Line westward to Downsview is create an express line (L-shaped) running parallel to Yonge Line into York Region. Bypassing the Yonge line only connecting at Sheppard Yonge Station alleviates some pressure off the YUS while increasing usage of the Sheppard subway. Provided that the Sheppard Line convinently ends at Don Mills, the density east of Vic Park on Sheppard is slim and the density along Don Mills especially at York Mills, Lawrence, Eglinton is immense the 'Sheppard' Line could easily run down Don Mills
and become the DRL line. This would work out perfectly if SRT could be extended into Malvern then loop back along Sheppard to Don Mills -er- Fairview Stn.
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scarberiankhatru
Guest
"the density east of Vic Park on Sheppard is slim"
Sigh, another person who's never been to Agincourt...
Sigh, another person who's never been to Agincourt...