[dougtoronto]

Looks cool to me but unfortunately I doubt that we will have stops that are so close together because of how expensive the stations are. If this alignment is selected I think the Parkadale, Roncesvalles, Junction or Stockyards station would be taken out.

It's too bad because simliarly to Go RER, more inner city stations would have a lot of potential to make transit commutes viable in terms of time door-to-door.

Are stations also that expensive when they are above ground? That's why I took the liberty of envisioning so many stations lol because many of them would exist on the existing rail line along this routing. I thought they were only prohibitively expensive when underground.

 

[JSF-1]

Made 2 maps about the Toronto's Belt Lines surviving into the modern day.There's the main loop which is the most well known, but the city also had a smaller loop which went through Swansea. It's impossible to say what a service pattern would have looked like but I have the Barrie and Richmond Hill lines running through the main loop with a dedicated loop service to fill in the gaps and operate at a higher frequency. The smaller loop through Swansea is set as a rush-hour only service. I kept all of the original Belt Line stations with 2 exceptions... Firstly I removed the Rosedale stop as it was at the bottom of the ravine and I don't know how useful it would be these days. Secondly I moved the Swansea stop to Jane and Bloor to offer a transfer to the Bloor-Danforth. Obviously though it is impossible to say how the service and stations would have changed had the lines not gone under in 1894. I wonder how different travel patterns through mid-town and downtown would be if they survived.

The first map is the entire network

The second map is a more detailed line map for the Belt Lines, showing subway connections and what street the stations are on.

 

[TwoWheelPoli]

Made 2 maps about the Toronto's Belt Lines surviving into the modern day.There's the main loop which is the most well known, but the city also had a smaller loop which went through Swansea. It's impossible to say what a service pattern would have looked like but I have the Barrie and Richmond Hill lines running through the main loop with a dedicated loop service to fill in the gaps and operate at a higher frequency. The smaller loop through Swansea is set as a rush-hour only service. I kept all of the original Belt Line stations with 2 exceptions... Firstly I removed the Rosedale stop as it was at the bottom of the ravine and I don't know how useful it would be these days. Secondly I moved the Swansea stop to Jane and Bloor to offer a transfer to the Bloor-Danforth. Obviously though it is impossible to say how the service and stations would have changed had the lines not gone under in 1894. I wonder how different travel patterns through mid-town and downtown would be if they survived.

The first map is the entire network
View attachment 716005

The second map is a more detailed line map for the Belt Lines, showing subway connections and what street the stations are on.
View attachment 716006

That Beltline route will never happen! It's a hugely popular multi-use trail now and you can expect significant opposition if Metrolinx dared to propose something like this!

 

[Bojaxs]

Made 2 maps about the Toronto's Belt Lines surviving into the modern day.There's the main loop which is the most well known, but the city also had a smaller loop which went through Swansea. It's impossible to say what a service pattern would have looked like but I have the Barrie and Richmond Hill lines running through the main loop with a dedicated loop service to fill in the gaps and operate at a higher frequency. The smaller loop through Swansea is set as a rush-hour only service. I kept all of the original Belt Line stations with 2 exceptions... Firstly I removed the Rosedale stop as it was at the bottom of the ravine and I don't know how useful it would be these days. Secondly I moved the Swansea stop to Jane and Bloor to offer a transfer to the Bloor-Danforth. Obviously though it is impossible to say how the service and stations would have changed had the lines not gone under in 1894. I wonder how different travel patterns through mid-town and downtown would be if they survived.

The first map is the entire network
View attachment 716005

The second map is a more detailed line map for the Belt Lines, showing subway connections and what street the stations are on.
View attachment 716006

Are you proposing this to be a GO train line? I could see something like this being more viable as it's own subway/ metro line. Wouldn't have the Barrie and Richmond Hill GO lines going around it.

 

[micheal_can]

Now it is my turn.

Here is my idea to connect Sault Ste Marie to Toronto, after the Northlander returns.

North Shore Express

 

[just east of the creek]

Now it is my turn.

Here is my idea to connect Sault Ste Marie to Toronto, after the Northlander returns.

North Shore Express

There is some method to this, and i have thought of it as well (as part of a re-working of the 'Canadian' Franchise), and as long as we have oodles of cash for upgrades to track and stations, there is some merit re service to the community.

However with the continuing improvements to come on HWY 17, especially after this winters record, a bus service run by Ontario Northland would make as much sense, certainly as a starter. And look, there is a service, although once a day. Perhaps upgrading that service to multiple buses per day to illustrate demand could lead to something rail based.

 

[micheal_can]

There is some method to this, and i have thought of it as well (as part of a re-working of the 'Canadian' Franchise), and as long as we have oodles of cash for upgrades to track and stations, there is some merit re service to the community.

However with the continuing improvements to come on HWY 17, especially after this winters record, a bus service run by Ontario Northland would make as much sense, certainly as a starter. And look, there is a service, although once a day. Perhaps upgrading that service to multiple buses per day to illustrate demand could lead to something rail based.

Part of my thought process is connecting Sudbury to Toronto. It already has 3 buses each way to Toronto. The Northlander route has 3-4 depending on the section.

Another thing is, those railways have asked for government assistance for maintenance. So,if we are already investing in it, why not invest more and operate a service that would be used.

Something else, this would help connect to the Budd car service (when it is operational) to the rest of the rail network, providing better access to it without driving.

The only investments in improving highway 17 that would actually improve winter travel is more plowing and dividing the highway.

 

[just east of the creek]

Part of my thought process is connecting Sudbury to Toronto. It already has 3 buses each way to Toronto. The Northlander route has 3-4 depending on the section.

Another thing is, those railways have asked for government assistance for maintenance. So,if we are already investing in it, why not invest more and operate a service that would be used.

Something else, this would help connect to the Budd car service (when it is operational) to the rest of the rail network, providing better access to it without driving.

The only investments in improving highway 17 that would actually improve winter travel is more plowing and dividing the highway.

A couple of notes.

I think that the trackage between Sudbury and the Soo would require further upgrades to achieve speeds to make it worthwhile.

I agree with your comments re connectivity of the existing services with those proposed (either building or conceptual)

I think you will see additional twinning to 17, and additional passing lanes.

But I think one of the greater and needed requirements is for enhanced transport truck driver certification with more rigorous requirements, more inspections and mandatory refresher/recertification at periodic intervals.

See the EU requirement:

Code 95 (The CPC Certificate)​

The Certificate of Professional Competence (CPC), recognized on your license as Code 95, is the single most important document for any driver in the EU.

• The “12-Hour Rule”: Legally, you cannot drive a commercial vehicle for more than 12 hours a week without this qualification. It is the proof that you have been trained in modern safety, fuel-efficient driving, and load-securing techniques.
• Initial Qualification: For new drivers, this involves an extensive course (often 140 to 280 hours) followed by a series of theoretical and practical exams.
• Periodic Training (The 35-Hour Rule): Your Code 95 will expire. And to keep it valid, you must complete 35 hours of accredited training every five years. You must do this to keep up to date on the latest regulations, road safety tech, and “eco-driving” standards to reduce environmental impact.

 

[micheal_can]

A couple of notes.

I think that the trackage between Sudbury and the Soo would require further upgrades to achieve speeds to make it worthwhile.

I agree with your comments re connectivity of the existing services with those proposed (either building or conceptual)

I think you will see additional twinning to 17, and additional passing lanes.

But I think one of the greater and needed requirements is for enhanced transport truck driver certification with more rigorous requirements, more inspections and mandatory refresher/recertification at periodic intervals.

See the EU requirement:

Code 95 (The CPC Certificate)​

The Certificate of Professional Competence (CPC), recognized on your license as Code 95, is the single most important document for any driver in the EU.

• The “12-Hour Rule”: Legally, you cannot drive a commercial vehicle for more than 12 hours a week without this qualification. It is the proof that you have been trained in modern safety, fuel-efficient driving, and load-securing techniques.
• Initial Qualification: For new drivers, this involves an extensive course (often 140 to 280 hours) followed by a series of theoretical and practical exams.
• Periodic Training (The 35-Hour Rule): Your Code 95 will expire. And to keep it valid, you must complete 35 hours of accredited training every five years. You must do this to keep up to date on the latest regulations, road safety tech, and “eco-driving” standards to reduce environmental impact.

Yes, the tracks need a lot of upgrades between the Soo and North Bay. I think the trains are speed restricted to 25mph.

The problem with highway safety is not so much the trucks, but the '4 wheelers' that need to pass and go fast.They pass in an area that is unsafe, cause an accident that closes the highway for 12 hours and then traffic cannot move as there are not many EDRs. I have not heard of any 4 laning projects that are actually planned for 17 between North Bay and the Soo.

Part of the reason the Northlander will be successful is the growing number of people that do not want to drive in winter on our 2 lane highways. I know that even I have hesitated in planning things in the winter due to the number of road closures.