[doady]

Wouldn't it have made more sense to connect that BRT along Finch and through Etobicoke with the Mississauga BRT? Why is the Eglinton LRT in Mississauga need at all? If you must extend the Eglinton LRT into Mississauga, then why doesn't it use the ROW along the north side of Eglinton that has been preserved by the City of Mississauga for the BRT? Why does the LRT bypass the Airport Corporate Centre?

Other problems too. For example:

Where is the subway station for Flemingdon Park?

East Mall station should be much closer to Dundas to serve MT and redevelopment of all those greyfields and Cloverdale Mall.

I think building almost nothing but at-grade median LRT like Transit City is a bad idea, but completely ignoring it is a bad idea also. I think such LRT would be good for such corridors like Wilson, Lawrence East, and Kingston Rd/Highway 2. Median ROW for BRT would be good for other corridors as well.

 

[ssiguy2]

gweed123............................
That is what I said, basically tunneled on Eglinton from laird to roughly Black Creek with stations averaging 1 to 1.2 km and all of Queen. Any line going thru the original City of Toronto should be tunneled {except where using rail ROW} and everything else elevated or trenched.

 

[ShonTron]

Nitpick: Humber College will have Zum service in 2012. You should also have a BT logo at the airport.

Otherwise, interesting map, though again, I'm not crazy about the idea of a Yonge Express subway. The DRL, upgraded GO, signal improvements and longer trains will likely do fine if the Yonge subway is extended north. The DRL will be able to absorb a lot of the latent and current Yonge subway demand simply by being a great intervening opportunity for commuters from the east.

 

[gweed123]

Nitpick: Humber College will have Zum service in 2012. You should also have a BT logo at the airport.

Otherwise, interesting map, though again, I'm not crazy about the idea of a Yonge Express subway. The DRL, upgraded GO, signal improvements and longer trains will likely do fine if the Yonge subway is extended north. The DRL will be able to absorb a lot of the latent and current Yonge subway demand simply by being a great intervening opportunity for commuters from the east.

Good call. And yeah, the express subway was added in in the last phase (I haven't shown the phases on here, but the Yonge Express subway and the DRL from Eglinton to Finch are in the last phase (ie nice-to-haves).

The main focus of the map was to show:
1) The possibility of a 4-tracked Queen LRT subway, with multiple branches providing one-seat service to downtown.
2) How splitting the US and Y subways and integrating US with the DRL east would impact service
3) How 4-tracking or combining service on the Richview corridor would allow for a transferless express ride from Pearson to downtown.
4) How a 'BRT ring' around the city, with multiple routes running on the same corridors, could potentially work.

 

[Dan416]

Good call. And yeah, the express subway was added in in the last phase (I haven't shown the phases on here, but the Yonge Express subway and the DRL from Eglinton to Finch are in the last phase (ie nice-to-haves).

The main focus of the map was to show:
1) The possibility of a 4-tracked Queen LRT subway, with multiple branches providing one-seat service to downtown.
2) How splitting the US and Y subways and integrating US with the DRL east would impact service
3) How 4-tracking or combining service on the Richview corridor would allow for a transferless express ride from Pearson to downtown.
4) How a 'BRT ring' around the city, with multiple routes running on the same corridors, could potentially work.

I really think a quadtracked Queen LRT subway is overkill. If anything, put the Queen streetcar in it's own ROW. Yes, that'd only leave 1 lane in each direction for cars, but who actually NEEDS to drive on Queen Street anyway?

 

[doady]

I really think a quadtracked Queen LRT subway is overkill. If anything, put the Queen streetcar in it's own ROW. Yes, that'd only leave 1 lane in each direction for cars, but who actually NEEDS to drive on Queen Street anyway?

That would be bad if the outer lanes did not have parking. Businesses would complain and pedestrians would get splashed by passing cars when the road is very wet.

I think Queen and King can each have streetcar ROWs if the tracks were moved to one side of the street and the streets were turned into one way roads for cars/bikes, but still remain two way for streetcars. And that way on street parking is still possible, at least on one side of the street. Of course, Queen and King would be opposite of directions. The way that King Street converges with Queen Street at both ends makes them both perfect for one way conversion (for regular traffic).

The tracks on King would have to be on the north side of the street and on Queen they'd have to be on the south side. Regular traffic on Queen would have to go west and on King they would have to go east.

 

[androiduk]

For anyone who's interested I just saw a coffee table book at Indigo today that has system maps of every subway network in the world.

 

[dunkalunk]

That would be bad if the outer lanes did not have parking. Businesses would complain and pedestrians would get splashed by passing cars when the road is very wet.

I think Queen and King can each have streetcar ROWs if the tracks were moved to one side of the street and the streets were turned into one way roads for cars/bikes, but still remain two way for streetcars. And that way on street parking is still possible, at least on one side of the street. Of course, Queen and King would be opposite of directions. The way that King Street converges with Queen Street at both ends makes them both perfect for one way conversion (for regular traffic).

The tracks on King would have to be on the north side of the street and on Queen they'd have to be on the south side. Regular traffic on Queen would have to go west and on King they would have to go east.

I'd take a slightly different approach to quicker streetcars which would not involve a dedicated right of way:

-Llimit all left turns from Queen Street (or whichever streetcar route you wanted to apply this to) except at major intersections
-At major intersections, add dedicated left turn signals that would operate (in either advanced or delayed mode) in the same direction as the streetcar to clear the intersection of left-turning traffic in the streetcar lane.
-Add visual cues for private vehicle drivers such as a set-back stopping lines, no right turns on red, flashing lights on the streetcar when doors open, or having a painted loading zone to help ensure streetcar passengers can load and unload safely.

These steps alone would help the streetcar move much more quickly through the city and make the system much safer. The bonus, is that it would not cost nearly as much as building an entirely new right of way.

I would be more in favour of doady's idea though if there was going to be no way that Toronto was going to be getting a DRL. If there is already going to be an express grade separated route running parallel nearby, then what need would we have for fully segregating streetcar traffic?

 

[MisterF]

I like the TTC logo. But it would probably be a good idea to have a distinct logo for rapid transit. But why should it be based on an M? It's not called the metro in Toronto. If it's based on a letter it should be an S. While M is the most common around the world, it's not universal. German and Austrian cities use a U and Seoul has an S. It doesn't have to have a letter at all, it could just be a distinct logo that says "subway", like in Madrid or London (metro, underground).

 

[leopetr]

The main focus of the map was to show:
1) The possibility of a 4-tracked Queen LRT subway, with multiple branches providing one-seat service to downtown.

- Queen is 20m wide. Property acquisition is expensive. Wide tunnels and wide stations require property acquisition.
- Is that a tunnel on Gerard to Victoria Park? With only one station, it would be poor bang for the buck. I hope it's not supposed to replace the Carlton streetcar.

2) How splitting the US and Y subways and integrating US with the DRL east would impact service

- Why split? Is the goal to run trains less frequently on the Spadina line than Yonge? Or do you foresee more riders riding around the U this way?

 

[gweed123]

- Queen is 20m wide. Property acquisition is expensive. Wide tunnels and wide stations require property acquisition.

Eglinton in the centre of town isn't much wider, yet a tunnel is being built there. Granted it isn't 4-tracked, but still. If it can be done there, it can be done on Queen.

- Is that a tunnel on Gerard to Victoria Park? With only one station, it would be poor bang for the buck. I hope it's not supposed to replace the Carlton streetcar.

It's at-grade, using the rail corridor. It's meant to be an express service, to act as even more of a relief to B-D (mainly from Scarborough-originating trips that currently use B-D. Note how the Scarborough BRT ends at Vic Park as well, I envision an easy transfer from the BRT to the LRT for a quick trip downtown). I think using the rail corridor, especially with only 1 station along that stretch, would be a relatively inexpensive venture for the benefit that it would provide.

- Why split? Is the goal to run trains less frequently on the Spadina line than Yonge? Or do you foresee more riders riding around the U this way?

Split because then you can have trains running at smaller headways on Yonge, and greater headways on US. The trains on US are not really near capacity in the AM rush hour until they reach St. George. So by increasing the headway on US, that means fewer trains, which means more trains available to Yonge. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the US portion is a bit of a drain on rolling stock resources, unless trains short-turn at St. Clair West. By pairing US and DRL East, you can match the headways more evenly, for a more efficient distribution of rolling stock.

 

[jwill]

According to my old right of way widths map Queen is 66' (20m) and Eglinton is 86' (26.2m). 4 tracks on Queen would only be possible with a tight stacked design, similar to some of NY's trunk routes.

 

[gweed123]

According to my old right of way widths map Queen is 66' (20m) and Eglinton is 86' (26.2m). 4 tracks on Queen would only be possible with a tight stacked design, similar to some of NY's trunk routes.

I had envisioned the local stations being no larger than the Queen's Quay, Union, or Spadina Stn streetcar platforms. Basically just long enough to accomodate a 2-car trainset. Only the express stations would need to be larger in order to accomodate the 4-6 car trainsets that would likely be using the line. So yes, the stacked tunnel would work perfectly: express on the bottom, local on the top.

 

[TwoDogs_39]

For anyone who's interested I just saw a coffee table book at Indigo today that has system maps of every subway network in the world.

Whaaaat? that sounds amazing! I think I know what I want for x-mas lol

 

[leopetr]

Whaaaat? that sounds amazing! I think I know what I want for x-mas lol

It's a neat book. The section on Toronto is pretty short, but they have great write-ups on the world's more extensive systems. I find the history of the Berlin S-Bahn and U-Bahn especially fascinating.