[W. K. Lis]

Using the farebox recovery ratio from this link:

• Toronto: 73%
• NYC: 51.2%
• SF: Caltrain 51.3% (BART 64.5%)
  
• Chicago: 43.0%
• Boston: 43.7%
• Atlanta: 31.8%
• Vancouver: 51.9%

Nice when you get subsidies from someone other than just the city to cover the operating budget.

The federal parties should step up now and say how much they'll help all the transit agencies within Canada with their operating budgets, not just the capital budgets.

 

[P23]

Every other Canadian city I know of is cheaper. For example:

Montreal: $82
Calgary: $99
Ottawa: $103

 

[Filip]

Uhh....Of course theyre the highest, TTC is the only agency in NA that still uses tokens!
Face it, costs will continue to increase over time whether by inflation or for budgetary reasons. The current fare has been frozen for 5 years. A fare increase is long overdue anyways so
you might as well accept the fact and carry on.

Wasn't there a fare increase last year or the year before?

This is getting ridiculous and out of hand. The senior levels of government need to begin subsidizing the TTC's operating budget, but with caveats such as benefits/pension clawback.

It worked with Metrolinx, it worked with Air Canada (private, but similar pension issues).....

 

[TOareaFan]

Enough is bloody enough.

The cost of tokens will be highest in Canada and the Metropass hasn't been cost effective for a long time...

The whole point of a monthly pass is to offer a deeply discounted travel ticket, but the TTC seems to raise the Metropass cost concurrently with its average cost per trip per token. Ridiculous.

I haven't bought a Metropass since the last fare increase as I no longer broke even. Does anyone have stats to see if Metropass purchases have been decreasing?

If, however, this fare hike is weighted towards the single ride price doesn't that increase the value of the monthly pass?

 

[justindw]

If, however, this fare hike is weighted towards the single ride price doesn't that increase the value of the monthly pass?

Assuming the cash fare goes to $3.25, then I would expect the cost of a metro pass to go to $162.50 (they'd keep the multiple, times the new rate).

 

[Filip]

If, however, this fare hike is weighted towards the single ride price doesn't that increase the value of the monthly pass?

The TTC automatically increases the cost of a Metropass.

For ex: fare goes up $0.25, they'll increase the cost of the Metropass by $0.25 x average number of monthly trips.

Point is, the Metropass is no longer cost effective for the typical commuter (2x weekday, no or minimal weekend use).

Goes to show the people running the TTC are out to lunch (as if they haven't since I came to Canada...)

 

[TOareaFan]

Assuming the cash fare goes to $3.25, then I would expect the cost of a metro pass to go to $162.50 (they'd keep the multiple, times the new rate).

The last fare increase (bizarrely IMO) increased the pass cost and the token costs without touching the cash fare (I think) so I don't think they just automatically use a multiple at a fixed rate.

 

[justindw]

The last fare increase (bizarrely IMO) increased the pass cost and the token costs without touching the cash fare (I think) so I don't think they just automatically use a multiple at a fixed rate.

(You are correct that the last one didn't increase the cash fare).

I should have been clear that I was speculating, and that it is not certain that they will increase the metropass at (cash*multiple). I hope you're right, but I would expect a hefty increase in Metropass prices. All I've seen is "an increase across all fare types".

 

[Napoleon]

The last fare increase (bizarrely IMO) increased the pass cost and the token costs without touching the cash fare (I think) so I don't think they just automatically use a multiple at a fixed rate.

AFAIK, the multiple is applied to the token rate and not the cash rate. I think to keep things simple, the cash rate seems to jump in quarter increments, so it's often a bit out of sync with the jumps in the token/metropass rate.

 

[nfitz]

The cost of tokens will be highest in Canada ...

Looking at page 20 of the presentation, it's already $3 in Durham, and $3.40 on YRT. So wouldn't even be the highest in the GTA, let alone Canada.

and the Metropass hasn't been cost effective for a long time...

The currently multiplier (number of tokens per cost of pass) is 50.5. When they first introduced it in 1980 it was 52. And it oscilated from 51.5 to 53 until David Miller was Mayor, and briefly dropped to about 48, before coming up to 50.5, which is still lower than it was traditionally.

And if you take the federal tax credit into account it's only 43. If you buy an annual pass instead of a monthly pass (and take the tax credit into account) it's only 39.4.

The whole point of a monthly pass is to offer a deeply discounted travel ticket, but the TTC seems to raise the Metropass cost concurrently with its average cost per trip per token. Ridiculous.

Given funding cuts to TTC from both Ontario and the federal government, how then do you suggest they fund it?

I haven't bought a Metropass since the last fare increase as I no longer broke even. Does anyone have stats to see if Metropass purchases have been decreasing?

The data is all online at http://www1.toronto.ca/City Of Toronto/Information & Technology/Open Data/Data Sets/Assets/Files/1985-2014 Analysis of ridership.xlsx

It's the opposite actually. Pass usage (monthly & weekly, adult/post-secondary) has become an ever greater percentage of total payments. over the years, with little increase to cash, despite the lack of increase.

You can see how cash usage plummeted when they increase cash from $1.30 to $2 in 1992 (tokens went from $1.07 to $1.30).

In 2005 the multiplier for tokens changes from 52 to 49.4,and that seems to have increased pass usage, followed by the tax credit in 2006.

I haven't broken out Presto separately, but it was 0% until 2011, then 0.3%, 1.0%, 1.9% and 2.3%. Token usage has fallen correspondingly.

It's hard to argue that the passes are too expensive relative to tokens/cash when relative pass usage has increased for 19 years in a row!

 

[W. K. Lis]

If... and only if, they switch over to a two-hour timed transfer, would I accept any kind of increase. The smaller the better, but preferable with an operation subsidy from the higher levels of government instead.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

If... and only if, they switch over to a two-hour timed transfer, would I accept any kind of increase. The smaller the better, but preferable with an operation subsidy from the higher levels of government instead.

Is there any chance of this happening when Presto is rolled out?

 

[smably]

Is there any chance of this happening when Presto is rolled out?

This came up recently in the Presto thread -- consensus seems to be that it will be impossible or highly difficult to enforce the current transfer rules with Presto, but since Metrolinx apparently guaranteed that Presto would support them, they may be on the hook for at least some of the costs of switching to timed transfers.

 

[nfitz]

Is there any chance of this happening when Presto is rolled out?

I believe that was the thought; consider it as part of the Presto transition when they eliminate passes and tokens in January 2017.

In the 2015 Operating Budget - http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com...015_TTC_AND_WHEEL_TRANS_OPERATING_BUDGETS.pdf they commented that:

The following initiatives from the Opportunities report which are not included in the 2015 budget will be considered for incorporation into future operating budgets:
• Transit priority measures
• Two-hour travel privilege (time-based transfer)​

 

[rbt]

The management really haven't gone after the union benefits like they should be. $500M of future obligations that are not funded and counting!

Ford asked the province to make it illegal for the city to go after TTC Union. The province agreed with that request.

Ford sold it to the public as "no strikes". Mandatory arbitration with no ability to lock-out the workers pretty much ensures the city has zero leverage for negotiations, and the hefty raise during the Ford negotiations reflected that.


All that said, why do we always want to take things away from someone else? How come nobody ever demands the same or better for themselves instead?