[kEiThZ]

The fuel and maintenance savings are showing themselves to be substantial. I'd argue that higher governments could do a lot of good helping fund a plan to fully electrify the buses of all major transit operators in Canada, within a decade.

 

[drum118]

TTC to unveil new hybrid electric buses

November 19, 2018

Tomorrow, Tues., Nov. 20, TTC Chair Josh Colle will join Mayor John Tory and MP Adam Vaughan (Spadina-Fort York) to unveil the TTC's new generation of hybrid electric buses, expected to go into service in the next two weeks.

Where: 222 Bremner Blvd., outside the Metro Toronto Convention Centre, South Building entrance
When: Tues., Nov. 20, 2018, 7:30 a.m.

 

[drum118]

Nov 20
This can be move to another thread if needed

Had a look at the new TTC Hybird bus today that saw a small turn out and had no clue who was who including the media, other than the Mayor and Adam Vaughan.

Bus was very quite compare to other Hybrid buses I have seen.

Lots of new toys on it and since I very rare ride a TTC Nova 40', not sure how this bus stacks up the existing ones. GPS map display for the driver, new style of flip down seats for accessibility ride area, European style signs for next stop and looks like it can display other bus routes, time, announcement. Look like front-rear side cameras and sure I miss a number of things.

Going from memory and could be wrong since I wasn't writing things down nor recording. 55 buses to be in service by year end, with buses being roll out shortly on various routes. 350 more are due by the end of 2019.

If I am not mistaken, door shield not in stall or not being install, as only the bottom door was there.

Lot more up on site

 

[steveintoronto]

^ I'm a little puzzled. TTC's own release states:

The TTC says the hybrid option is different from a traditional electric bus, as it produces its own energy on-board rather than from being plugged in. Hybrid buses can also store energy when braking or driving downhill.

https://www.blogto.com/city/2018/11/ttc-just-got-new-fleet-buses/

You mean to tell me the previous hybrids weren't doing this?

And to make matters even more complex:

These ecofriendly vehicles incorporate hybrid technology and run off power generated onboard that is fueled by diesel engines.

http://dailyhive.com/toronto/ttc-hybrid-electric-buses-2018

I think the TTC have a communications problem, and I'm being diplomatic. In conventional terms, this vehicle is "Diesel/Rlectric". And it's nowhere near emission free. To power a bus this way is an improvement, doubtless, and has many mechanical advantages too, but as to why this is being touted the way it is puzzles me...

 

[drum118]

New hybrid electric buses have arrived at the TTC

November 20, 2018

The TTC has taken delivery of its newest-generation hybrid electric bus. The vehicle, which is currently undergoing testing, commissioning and training of operators, is expected to go into service in the next two weeks.

This bus is the first of 55 hybrid buses to be delivered by the end of 2018. Two-hundred more hybrid electric buses and 60 all-electric eBuses will be delivered by the end of 2019.

The Government of Canada and the City of Toronto are investing $370 million in these buses as part of the federal Public Transit Infrastructure Fund (PTIF). This fund is helping keep Torontonians moving through investments in the repair, modernization and expansion of the city's transit and active transportation networks. In total, up to $1.8 billion is being invested in Toronto through PTIF, which was launched on August 23, 2016.

Today's hybrid bus is as close as possible to being a fully electric bus as it is driven by an electric motor powered by on-board battery system. The only distinction between a hybrid and an all-electric bus is that the hybrid has an on-board generator that produces electricity when needed. Also, all on-board systems such as doors, HVAC, power steering etc. are now fully electrified.

The TTC is using PTIF for its green bus procurement program as part of the City of Toronto's mandate to reduce greenhouse gas emissions 80 per cent by 2050. Together with the Government of Canada and the City of Toronto, the TTC is working to reduce its carbon footprint and operate an entirely zero emissions fleet by 2040.

"The Government of Canada is investing in efficient public transit systems to help reduce traffic congestion and improve air quality," said Adam Vaughan, Member of Parliament for Spadina-Fort York, on behalf of the Honourable Francois-Philippe Champagne, Minister of Infrastructure and Communities. "The TTC's new hybrid buses will benefit transit users across Toronto by providing modern new buses, while helping improve air quality and protecting the environment."

"Our new hybrid buses are part of the TTC's large commitment to greening our fleet and we look forward to the introduction of our first zero emissions eBus early next year," said TTC Chair Josh Colle.
"With the introduction of these new hybrid buses, the TTC will provide its customers with a cleaner and greener ride while saving money on fuel costs," said Mayor John Tory. "These new buses are another example of the importance of governments working together to make investments in our transit system."
These ecofriendly vehicles incorporate hybrid technology and run off power generated onboard that is fueled by diesel engines. Though the vehicles are still using fuel to produce energy, they consume up to 30 per cent less than other non-hybrid buses.

PTIF is the result of the Government of Canada and the City of Toronto collaborating for a greener future. This fund improves commutes, cuts air pollution, strengthens communities and grows the economy.

For more information on the TTC's green initiatives, please visit ttc.ca/green.

 

[robmausser]

^ I'm a little puzzled. TTC's own release states:

https://www.blogto.com/city/2018/11/ttc-just-got-new-fleet-buses/

You mean to tell me the previous hybrids weren't doing this?

And to make matters even more complex:

http://dailyhive.com/toronto/ttc-hybrid-electric-buses-2018

I think the TTC have a communications problem, and I'm being diplomatic. In conventional terms, this vehicle is "Diesel/Rlectric". And it's nowhere near emission free. To power a bus this way is an improvement, doubtless, and has many mechanical advantages too, but as to why this is being touted the way it is puzzles me...

It sounds to me like these are entirely diesel-electric hybrids vs diesel-mechanical-electric.

Meaning that the diesel engine only powers a generator that powers electric motors to drive the wheels, it never touches the drivetrain directly. The old ones were a typical diesel powered vehicle that had an electric motor that ran at specific times.

 

[W. K. Lis]

...

Now if they could return to "old" four-colour (or better) destination signs in front.

From link.

 

[crs1026]

^Amusing to see an old school transfer cutter amid all the new technology.

- Paul

 

[cplchanb]

^Amusing to see an old school transfer cutter amid all the new technology.

- Paul

Not to mention that dinosaur fare box......common TTC....you blow money on those led screens yet you keep such byzantine fare collection media.....misplaced priorities.

 

[smallspy]

It sounds to me like these are entirely diesel-electric hybrids vs diesel-mechanical-electric.

Meaning that the diesel engine only powers a generator that powers electric motors to drive the wheels, it never touches the drivetrain directly. The old ones were a typical diesel powered vehicle that had an electric motor that ran at specific times.

The old hybrids were diesel-electric as well. In fact, they use an older version of the same hybrid BAE system.

I think a lot of the confusion is coming from the marketing wank that Nova has been feeding them. These are simply a newer-generation of the same hybrids that have been on Toronto's roads since 2006.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[EnviroTO]

The article on Urban Toronto discusses AC to DC conversion. I'm thinking that should be AC to DC. Batteries store current in DC, the power grid is AC. There may be DC to AC converters on the bus if there are AC power outlets.

Also, the article suggests this is the TTCs first hybrid bus. It is not. They have a generation of older hybrid buses that can't operate on some routes because of the height of the bus. They have a battery pack on top that says "Hybrid Electric" on it.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Shenzhen's silent revolution: world's first fully electric bus fleet quietens Chinese megacity

See link.

All 16,000 buses in the fast-growing Chinese megacity are now electric, and soon all 13,000 taxis will be too

You have to keep your eyes peeled for the bus at the station in Shenzhen’s Futian central business district these days. The diesel behemoths that once signalled their arrival with a piercing hiss, a rattle of engine and a plume of fumes are no more, replaced with the world’s first and largest 100% electric bus fleet.

Shenzhen now has 16,000 electric buses in total and is noticeably quieter for it. “We find that the buses are so quiet that people might not hear them coming,” says Joseph Ma, deputy general manager at Shenzhen Bus Group, the largest of the three main bus companies in the city. “In fact, we’ve received requests to add some artificial noise to the buses so that people can hear them. We’re considering it.”

The benefits from the switch from diesel buses to electric are not confined to less noise pollution: this fast-growing megacity of 12 million – which was a fishing village until designated China’s first “special economic zone” in the 1980s – is also expected to achieve an estimated reduction in CO2 emissions of 48% and cuts in pollutants such as nitrogen oxides, non-methane hydrocarbons and particulate matter. Shenzhen Bus Group estimates it has been able to conserve 160,000 tonnes of coal per year and reduce annual CO2 emissions by 440,000 tonnes. Its fuel bill has halved.

“With diesel buses I can remember standing at the bus stop and the heat, noise and emissions they generated made it unbearable in the summer,” says Ma. “The electric buses have made a tremendous difference.”

China’s drive to reduce the choking smog that envelops many of its major cities has propelled a huge investment in electric transport. Although it remains expensive for cities to introduce electric buses – one bus costs around 1.8 million yuan (£208,000) – Shenzhen was able to go all-electric thanks to generous subsidies from both central and local government.

“Typically, more than half of the cost of the bus is subsidised by government,” says Ma. “In terms of operation there is another subsidy: if we run our buses for a distance of more than 60,000km we receive just under 500,000 yuan [£58,000] from local government.” This subsidy is put towards reducing the cost of the bus fares: “The government looks at the public transport very much as social welfare.”

To keep Shenzhen’s electric vehicle fleet running, the city has built around 40,000 charging piles. Shenzhen Bus Company has 180 depots with their own charging facilities installed. One of its major depots in Futian can accommodate around 20 buses at the same time. “Most of the buses we charge overnight for two hours and then they can run their entire service, as the range of the bus is 200km per charge,” says Ma.

Availability of charging stations is a major factor in why it is it difficult for other cities around the world to switch to all-electric bus fleets, but Ma says China being a one-party state hasn’t necessarily made it any easier in Shenzhen. “We have some of our own depots, but we also have to rent some from the municipal government, as well as from the private sector,” he says. “Aside from the subsidies in terms of purchasing the buses, we are very much left to ourselves to how we look for resources for our charging infrastructure.”

Getting the required charging infrastructure for taxis is proving more challenging. By the end of this month, all of Shenzhen’s 13,000 taxis are required to switch to electric. Shenzhen Bus Company has switched its entire fleet of 4,600 taxis to electric ahead of schedule.

“For taxis it’s more about distribution than the number of charging pillars because taxis run all over the place and they have no fixed routes,” says Ma. “We are looking at all sorts of different solutions – from parking spaces in public areas like municipal parks and some of the major government venues, as well as temporary sites in local villages that might have communal land we can hire.”

The lack of charging stations is causing friction between taxi drivers. “You always hear about fights between taxi drivers trying to get into the charging stations and things like that,” says Ma. “It’s difficult for the drivers because obviously they can’t go too far out of the way to charge the taxis.”

His firm is developing an app to track where charging spaces are available and notify drivers in real time.

Too expensive outside China?

More than 30 Chinese cities have made plans to achieve 100% electrified public transit by 2020, including Guangzhou, Zhuhai, Dongguan, Foshan and Zhongshan in the Pearl River Delta; and Nanjing, Hangzhou, Shaanxi and Shandong.

But with central government planning to withdraw subsidies by 2020, introducing electric buses elsewhere could be too expensive.

There is also geography to consider. Shenzhen is fairly flat, but the hills of nearby Hong Kong have proven too much in trials of electric buses. Other cities in northern China have struggled with battery power in the extreme cold of winter.

Meanwhile, cities such as London and New York are accelerating their drive towards electric buses. London plans to make all single-decker buses emission-free by 2020, and all double-deckers hybrid by 2019. New York plans to make its bus fleet all-electric by 2040.

Riding the 222 bus the length of Shenzhen’s CBD, you hear little sound other than a soft whine when the driver accelerates. The easy-to-clean hard plastic seats are not the most comfortable but most passengers opt to stand anyway – a choice made easier by the smoothness of the ride.

Roll into our destination, the doors open with a beep, beep, beep – the loudest noise the bus has made the entire journey.

“It’s quieter, smoother and I only pay the same fare as before,” says Lai, a regular passenger. “I would say most people here are happy with the switch.

 

[Towered]

No surprise there at all - other cities implement bold upgrades with urgency while Toronto lags decades behind.

 

[APTA-2048]

No surprise there at all - other cities implement bold upgrades with urgency while Toronto lags decades behind.

In terms of electric buses, Toronto is on par with most major cities. And to be honest, I'm glad Toronto is taking it slow. CNG and hybrid bus technology have matured to become an integral part of major transit systems. This wasn't the case when the TTC first bought both, leaving them less than satisfied.

 

[rbt]

No surprise there at all - other cities implement bold upgrades with urgency while Toronto lags decades behind.

Probably a good thing to do a bit of testing before diving in head first.

From the article above:

"Other cities in northern China have struggled with battery power in the extreme cold of winter."​

​

Extreme cold for north China means somewhere between northern cities like Beijing which is a bit warmer than Toronto and Harbin which is a bit cooler.