[M II A II R II K]

What section did they smash the champagne bottle...

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet:

For those who do not know, these new streetcars will not be running the AC during the summer months initially due to the lack of having the pantograph compatible catenary; the current overhead wires cannot supply enough voltage (small contact area) to run the AC units. So it will be 2015-2016 when we will get to have the AC on during the summer months.

 

[Voltz]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet:

For those who do not know, these new streetcars will not be running the AC during the summer months initially due to the lack of having the pantograph compatible catenary; the current overhead wires cannot supply enough voltage (small contact area) to run the AC units. So it will be 2015-2016 when we will get to have the AC on during the summer months.

Aren't they already upgrading the overhead and will have each route ready before the new streetcars roll out on them?

 

[JayBeeGooner]

Aren't they already upgrading the overhead and will have each route ready before the new streetcars roll out on them?

Brad Ross, on twitter said the AC will work fine with trolley poles. Also, spadina and queens quay should be pan-ready by 2014.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

Aren't they already upgrading the overhead and will have each route ready before the new streetcars roll out on them?

Sorry, I just re-read what I wrote. What I was trying to say is that there is an issue that the new streetcars require more voltage to operate, thus there are capacity issues with the existing power supply. IIRC there are also some other issues that were highlighted in a TTC presentation power point on the transition to the new fleet of streetcars and Steve Munro has a posting about this roll-out presentation.


Upgrading the Overhead Power Distribution

"The new cars are capable of running with trolley poles, but they draw about 50% more current than the existing fleet (this is a net saving against cars that are half the size). However, the required power cannot be delivered to the cars through the comparatively small contact area of a shoe on a trolley pole, especially on parts of the network still using older wire. This wire is adequate for the demands of CLRVs and ALRVs, but cannot handle the LFLRVs. Moreover, the contact area of the shoe limits the current available to the car.

The LFLRVs will use pantographs, long standard in the rail industry, both to increase the contact area with the wire and to eliminate problems with dewirement of poles. This requires all of the overhead system to be rebuilt — initially a dual-mode configuration is used that can be operated by either type of power pickup, but eventually when all older cars are retired, the system can move fully to pantograph-only overhead.

Page 24 shows a map of the conversion plans for the overhead system. The tangent wire will be upgraded to a heavier gauge and the suspension will be changed to work with pantographs. Although the map shows many areas as already completed, this applies only to the “tangent” wire, not to the intersections, many of which cannot now support pantograph operation.

A related issue is the presence of other wires and signs near existing TTC overhead. Some of these do not pose a problem for trolley poles, but the wider clearance needed for pantographs will require some changes."

http://stevemunro.ca/?p=7906

 

[k10ery]

What a good idea. After the new streetcars arrive from Thunder Bay, one'll be shipped to Ottawa for cold weather testing. Wait, what?

 

[smallspy]

Sorry, I just re-read what I wrote. What I was trying to say is that there is an issue that the new streetcars require more voltage to operate, thus there are capacity issues with the existing power supply. IIRC there are also some other issues that were highlighted in a TTC presentation power point on the transition to the new fleet of streetcars and Steve Munro has a posting about this roll-out presentation.

First off, they don't require more voltage - the overhead lines all run at ~600Vdc, and this isn't changing with the roll-out of the new cars. They do draw more amps on the overhead however, and that's part of the problem.

As for converting from poles to pans, despite the TTC framing it as a necessity, it isn't. Pantographs are a lot more efficient for a lot of different reasons (fewer dewirements, ease of overhead installation, reduced manpower for back-up maneuvers), but there is no physical reason why they couldn't continue using trolley poles. It seems that the TTC (and a lot of railfans) have forgotten that the TTC used to operate 6-motor MU'd trolley cars pulling the power through one pole. It wasn't a problem then.

What a good idea. After the new streetcars arrive from Thunder Bay, one'll be shipped to Ottawa for cold weather testing. Wait, what?

As each car is delivered, it has more improvements on the previous units. For instance, 4400 doesn't have an operable ramp - but 4401 does. 4400 was used to test the dynamics of the cars on the full network. 4401 is used to determine how all of the systems will work as a whole on the unit, while 4402 will likely be used to test just how reliable (or not) the various sub-systems will be in simulated service.

Thus, 4400's first run of testing on the system is complete, and so it will be used for other testing (both cold and hot weather). Once done in Ottawa, it will be shipped to Thunder Bay to be updated and completed.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[jamincan]

Perhaps they are using an NRC facility? Ottawa doesn't seem that much colder on the whole than Toronto.

 

[nfitz]

Perhaps they are using an NRC facility? Ottawa doesn't seem that much colder on the whole than Toronto.

The TTC site http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Pro...tcars/About_The_Process/Streetcar_Testing.jsp says that "These tests will be conducted on the test vehicles at Bombardier’s Thunder Bay site, within the TTC’s Hillcrest facility and test track, and at the National Research Council in Ottawa. Next spring, the vehicles will begin to undergo testing on the streets of Toronto"

They are going for 6 weeks in July. Ottawa is cooler than Toronto - but it's not that cool!

 

[doug]

What I was trying to say is that there is an issue that the new streetcars require more voltage to operate

No, they require more current, not voltage.
Meaning the new cars consume more power than the older ones.

 

[Jonny5]

The TTC site http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Pro...tcars/About_The_Process/Streetcar_Testing.jsp says that "These tests will be conducted on the test vehicles at Bombardier’s Thunder Bay site, within the TTC’s Hillcrest facility and test track, and at the National Research Council in Ottawa. Next spring, the vehicles will begin to undergo testing on the streets of Toronto"

They are going for 6 weeks in July. Ottawa is cooler than Toronto - but it's not that cool!

From the NRC website:

Revealing hidden pathways
No design process can foresee every way that nature will penetrate and disable your product. But climatic testing will reveal them all, right before your eyes.

ST's Climatic Engineering facility provides a single location to test performance under an exceptionally wide range of conditions. Designed specifically to evaluate the performance of even the longest and largest commercial and military equipment, vehicles, and components under severe climatic conditions, the Climatic Engineering facility can produce temperatures ranging from -51° to +55°C. A full suite of instrumentation and 190 channels for data recording keeps track of performance under conditions of snow, rain, freezing rain, ice, and fog – and even a combination of those conditions, changing where needed over a period of time to simulate changing weather.

So I guess they have something like a warehouse that has been outfitted with powerful climate control equipment. I guess they will do things like test how well the AC and heat work, and track things like where hot/cold air is leaking in/out of the vehicle and recommend design changes to minimize it. Maybe also do tests on braking in the rain/ice/snow?

 

[nfitz]

So I guess they have something like a warehouse that has been outfitted with powerful climate control equipment. I guess they will do things like test how well the AC and heat work, and track things like where hot/cold air is leaking in/out of the vehicle and recommend design changes to minimize it. Maybe also do tests on braking in the rain/ice/snow?

TTC has talked about the former. I don't think there's any facilities there to do the latter ... it's static testing.

 

[drum118]

4400 is supposed to be back in Toronto in about 6 weeks. Once finishing the testing in Ottawa, it will go back to Thunder Bay to be modify to the latest changes. 4401 and 4402 will be ship back later for the same changes and return for more testing.

Thunder Bay is putting kits together of parts that have pass testing to get them ready for the production run next year.

Daylight testing will happen this fall.

You will be able to buy day passes on the cars as well get a transfer when not using a Presto card.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The current CLRV's are one section vehicles.

The current ALRV's are two section vehicles.

The ordered Bombardier Flexity Outlook's are to be five section vehicles. There should be less of a swing or overhang at curves.

The old Peter Witt streetcar and trailers could be considered to be two section vehicles. While the large Witts had seating for 58 people, the trailers had seating for 60. The trailers did not have motors, only the front streetcar had motors (4 x 50 hp). The last streetcar and trailer ran in Toronto on March 30, 1954.

The PCC MU streetcar trains consisted of two MU streetcars coupled together. The first were PCC numbered 4400-4499, which starting arriving in 1947 and used on the Bloor streetcar line. MU operation on the Bloor line lasted until the Bloor-Danforth subway opened in 1966. Starting in 1967, and for ten years after, two-car MU PCC trains operated on the Queen line, but this practice stopped on February 6, 1977.

The first ALRV's entered service in 1988. They are currently being in use, but maybe the first to be decommissioned.

 

[hawc]

^^^ The current streetcars are capable of 110 km/h?!?!