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TheTigerMaster said:
The rest of Metrolinx's LRVs (for outside Toronto) will be green. I don't see why it would be an issue for them to order red trainsets as well.

And some of Metrolinx's reports on the LRT projects show the LRVs as red. However most show green.

I guess we'll find out in a few years. This isn't exactly a pressing issue
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Please tell me you're joking? I can't think of an issue more pressing right now for the Eglinton LRVs!
 
TheTigerMaster said:
So either you misunderstood or are being sarcastic. Either way I'm chucking. There really is no more pressing issue than the colour :)
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It was sarcasm. I don't think it's actually pressing. But many of us are curious what the colour will be and would like to discuss it, even if it is kinda useless to discuss at this point. It's just idle speculation. But I think it is a good idea to give them the red and silver rather than red and white paint scheme to make them look more like the subways and distinguish them from their brethren on the TTC gauge track.
 
They are running the same tests tonight, but this time they've filled all the seats with sandbags (or something similar).
 
diminutive said:
In the long run, I'd like a plan to gradually give all of the main downtown streetcars (which don't get replaced by a DRL) some kind of exclusive ROW, more rapid stop spacing and substantial station infrastructure. These streetcars we are buying are so expensive per-unit, the idea of having them stuck in traffic just seems like a waste of resources. If we were just going to have downtown surface transit doddle along at walking speeds, we might as well have just gotten the cheapest vehicles we could (buses).
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An exclusive ROW is really needed; right now, at rush hour, streetcars are useless. I just changed my dinner plans for tonight because I decided that I didn't want to be stuck on the Dundas streetcar at rush hour all the way to Dovercourt.
 
Bayer:

An exclusive ROW will help, but at the end of the day, you still have to deal with the multitude of closely spaced intersections.

AoD
 
It's not hard to give streetcars green time when they need it. Only Toronto seems to have problems with things like detecting whether the doors are open or closed, or alerting the next signal down the line before a car has passed the previous one, or using two-stage pedestrian crossings for shorter minimal phase lengths, or delaying green arrow phases. Lots of measures that could work wonders haven't even been studied by the TTC.
 
bielawski said:
It's not hard to give streetcars green time when they need it. Only Toronto seems to have problems with things like detecting whether the doors are open or closed, or alerting the next signal down the line before a car has passed the previous one, or using two-stage pedestrian crossings for shorter minimal phase lengths, or delaying green arrow phases. Lots of measures that could work wonders haven't even been studied by the TTC.
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Things like light timing and enforcement of rules - blocking lanes, blocking intersections, illegal parking - are not up to the TTC - it's the police, parking guys and Transportation who decide and they seem to misunderstand what public transit needs.
 
bielawski said:
It's not hard to give streetcars green time when they need it.
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It is hard when most streetcar stops are in front of the intersection instead of the far side.

I have said it before. The TTC should change the streetcars so they operate like modern light rail. That means stops on the far side, signal priority, honour fare. And reducing the amount of stops and having the LRVs stop at every stop automatically (no more stop request).

The new LRVs are modern light vehicles. They are much longer than the current bus-sized LRVs. It won't make sense to have them operate like buses anymore. They need to take advantage of the new LRVs' increased capacity by reducing the amount of stops. And with such high capacity, the new streetcars will be not skip stops anyways. So having close stop spacing like that will be an even bigger problem.

The new LRVs are 2.5 times longer than the CLRV - think about that. 100 foot long transit vehicles are not meant to operated like a conventional 40 foot bus. In my experience using Mississauga Transit, I think that even 60 foot articulated buses are not suited to be operated that way, let alone 100 foot long light rail vehicles.
 
doady said:
It is hard when most streetcar stops are in front of the intersection instead of the far side.

I have said it before. The TTC should change the streetcars so they operate like modern light rail. That means stops on the far side, signal priority, honour fare. And reducing the amount of stops and having the LRVs stop at every stop automatically (no more stop request).

The new LRVs are modern light vehicles. They are much longer than the current bus-sized LRVs. It won't make sense to have them operate like buses anymore. They need to take advantage of the new LRVs' increased capacity by reducing the amount of stops. And with such high capacity, the new streetcars will be not skip stops anyways. So having close stop spacing like that will be an even bigger problem.

The new LRVs are 2.5 times longer than the CLRV - think about that. 100 foot long transit vehicles are not meant to operated like a conventional 40 foot bus. In my experience using Mississauga Transit, I think that even 60 foot articulated buses are not suited to be operated that way, let alone 100 foot long light rail vehicles.
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The TTC agrees with you on almost all counts.

Proof of purchase (honour fare) will be implemented concurrently with the new streetcars since they have no customer access to the driver. Signal priority is also being pushed by the TTC, but the traffic department seems reluctant to implement an effective system.

I haven't heard anything about stop reductions despite its obvious utility for service. That's likely because it's a political challenge since local residents will freak out about losing a streetcar stop, even when it's only a hundred metres to the next one.

As for getting them running more efficiently, my personal suggestion is that given our downtown streets are too narrow to accommodate each mode well (sidewalks, bike lanes, transit ROW, general traffic, parking), they should be categorized for different uses, particularily Queen/Richmond/Adelaide/King, since they are so close together.

Richmond and Adelaide would obviously be the car streets since they are one-way with signal coordination, and lead onto an expressway interchange with the DVP. King and Queen are the transit streets, and my suggestion would be to put the DRL under one and consolidate all the King and Queen streetcars onto the other one, with cars banned except for deliveries. Separated bike lanes be on the King or Queen transit street, rather than Richmond or Adelaide street as currently planned.
 
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My ideal network for downtown streets:

Queen: Streetcar ROW with a single lane for vehicles

Richmond: as is, but repave and rip out redundant streetcar tracks

Adelaide: as is, but repave and rip out redundant streetcar tracks

King: DRL underneath, streetcar removed (non revenue tracks should stay for 501 detours) and reduced to 1 lane each way. 1 permanent parking lane, and a 2 way bike lane.

Wellington: Return to a 2 way street, repair or rip out redundant streetcar tracks

York: 1 way all the way to lakeshore

Simcoe: 1 way all the way to lakeshore

Yonge: 1 lane each way from Front to just before Bloor.
 
doady said:
It is hard when most streetcar stops are in front of the intersection instead of the far side.

I have said it before. The TTC should change the streetcars so they operate like modern light rail. That means stops on the far side, signal priority, honour fare. And reducing the amount of stops and having the LRVs stop at every stop automatically (no more stop request).

The new LRVs are modern light vehicles. They are much longer than the current bus-sized LRVs. It won't make sense to have them operate like buses anymore. They need to take advantage of the new LRVs' increased capacity by reducing the amount of stops. And with such high capacity, the new streetcars will be not skip stops anyways. So having close stop spacing like that will be an even bigger problem.

The new LRVs are 2.5 times longer than the CLRV - think about that. 100 foot long transit vehicles are not meant to operated like a conventional 40 foot bus. In my experience using Mississauga Transit, I think that even 60 foot articulated buses are not suited to be operated that way, let alone 100 foot long light rail vehicles.
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+1

I think Toronto is the only city I've been to that allows request stops for streetcars. Every other city has designated stops and vehicles stop there regardless. That, plus the greater stop spacing in most cities, allow drivers to accelerate to a reasonable level and then stop in known places, and they probably don't have to drive slowly and scan the stops to see if people are going to get on or off.

Also, yes to far-side stops. That, coupled with required stops allows you to build in some innovative traffic light signaling. For example, if the streetcar stops on the far side, you can restrict movement onto the lane that the streetcar is parked in, effectively allowing passengers to enter and exit safely and giving the streetcar a headstart on moving forward before car traffic catches up to it. Here's a diagram showing the kind of signaling that you could institute as soon as streetcars make it to the far side stop:

streetcar.png


The streetcar immediately triggers a red light behind it and a green for the perpendicular road, but disallows any turns in the direction of where the streetcar is.
 
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