[the lemur]

Also, it is an inefficient use of the road to see cars backed up for blocks behind a streetcar and the road completely empty in front of the streetcar for blocks. It's just not spreading out the traffic efficiently.

You're right, it's not. But why aren't those drivers passing the streetcar when they have an opportunity? I know I do when I'm driving. Drivers talk about 'getting stuck behind a streetcar' as if it they had no choice but to put themselves there. Then again, that is part of the problem with on-street running in mixed traffic when other vehicles are allowed to be in the same lane as the streetcar some or all of the time.

 

[nfitz]

Also, it is an inefficient use of the road to see cars backed up for blocks behind a streetcar and the road completely empty in front of the streetcar for blocks. It's just not spreading out the traffic efficiently.

Agreed. Remove parking. Move tracks to side. Done!

Last night after the TFC match I took the 511 to King and took my transfer. When I got to King I decided to just walk to my destination (King and Simcoe).....the first streetcar I saw on King got to Simcoe about 3 1/2 seconds before I did.

That doesn't sound too horrific. It's less than a mile from Bathurst to Simcoe - about a 15-minute walk. Scheduled travel time on the 504 at 10:30 pm is 5 minutes, and they run every 6-7 minutes. So to if instead of a 7-minute gap you had a 10-minute gap (i.e. only 3-minutes extra), then walking is quicker.

If only a 3-minute delay was the worst case we had ...

 

[TOareaFan]

Agreed. Remove parking. Move tracks to side. Done!

That may be the long term solution. As an interim, much cheaper, trial I would love to see actual enforcement of the current rules at rush hours.

sitting on streetcar last night going from Simcoe to Jefferson it was so obvious (not for the first time) that the rules are just ignored. There were far too many cars in the streetcar lanes....and before you can get really mad at them you realize the right lane is clogged with illegally parked/stopped vehicles...then the whole thing escalates when cars inappropriately (but understandably) in the wrong lane find themselves not moving in the streetcar lane and decide to compound things by "getting off" of King by making a left onto some other street to escape.

Before we start making dramatic (and perhaps expensive changes) I would love to see an extended blitz on the current rules. Perhaps the introduction of the new streetcars on to King offers the opportunity for this. Perhaps an advertising campaign for a month prior to their introduction......reminding drivers the new cars are coming and that rush hour rules will be enforced....put feet on the streets......moving cars along who stop in the right lane.....getting cars out of the streetcar lanes and slapping tickets on the left turners.....make the signage for the rules more prominent too.

On these boards we tend to speak to each other as people who are aware of traffic/transit issues.....but you would be surprised how many of those people driving in the streetcar lanes during rush hours aren't even aware they are doing something wrong....and, ask yourself, do you know anyone who has ever been warned/ticketed for doing it?

This could be an opportunity to see if we just can't improve transit at very little cost.

 

[11th]

Agreed. Remove parking. Move tracks to side. Done!

Then (on the busier stretches of streetcar routes) make all intersections scramble crossing, but implements it so it goes N/S vehicles-E/W vehicles-pedestrian, and then ban right-turn on reds.

 

[TOareaFan]

Then (on the busier stretches of streetcar routes) make all intersections scramble crossing, but implements it so it goes N/S vehicles-E/W vehicles-pedestrian, and then ban right-turn on reds.

If the streetcars are in the right lane....you might want to ban right turns outright (just as streetcars in left lanes lead to rush hour bans on left turns).

 

[11th]

If the streetcars are in the right lane....you might want to ban right turns outright (just as streetcars in left lanes lead to rush hour bans on left turns).

I don't see a problem with right-turning vehicles queuing up behind streetcars (The curb lane is still a regular lane - but now shared with streetcars) ; but left turn should still be banned during rush. The scramble intersection setup also helps to speed things up a bit.

 

[TOareaFan]

I don't see a problem with right-turning vehicles queuing up behind streetcars. (The curb lane is still a regular lane - but now shared with streetcars)

It is not the ones behind the streetcars you should be concerned about....it is the ones in front of them that slow the transit down. Unless you are going to ban pedestrians from crossing the street on a green light, cars can't just freely turn right on city streets as they have to wait for the pedestrian flow to stop. So if 2, 3 , 4/whatever, cars are waiting to turn right....the streetcar behind them will also be held up.

 

[11th]

It is not the ones behind the streetcars you should be concerned about....it is the ones in front of them that slow the transit down. Unless you are going to ban pedestrians from crossing the street on a green light, cars can't just freely turn right on city streets as they have to wait for the pedestrian flow to stop. So if 2, 3 , 4/whatever, cars are waiting to turn right....the streetcar behind them will also be held up.

That's why the scramble crossing setup - except as stated earlier, implement differently from the ones we have at Dundas/Yonge. It should go N/S cars, E/W cars, pedestrian all-ways, on intersections with more pedestrian traffic, it can go N/S cars, pedestrian, E/W cars, pedestrian...

 

[TOareaFan]

That's why the scramble crossing setup - except as stated earlier, implement differently from the ones we have at Dundas/Yonge. It should go N/S cars, E/W cars, pedestrian all-ways, on intersections with more pedestrian traffic, it can go N/S cars, pedestrian, E/W cars, pedestrian...

So, unlike our other scrambles, you would propose that E/W pedestrians could not cross the street when the E/W cars/streetcars have a green light?

 

[W. K. Lis]

If the streetcars are in the right lane....you might want to ban right turns outright (just as streetcars in left lanes lead to rush hour bans on left turns).

Where would the snow windrows be dumped? They currently go on the sidewalk, but the spill and property owners end up dumping it back on the road. It'll be a battle.

The city will need to first clear the snow faster. However, that'll cost money> We can't spend money to do that, just let spring melt it. That's what some would do. I think we need to do a better job clearing the snow faster first.

 

[11th]

So, unlike our other scrambles, you would propose that E/W pedestrians could not cross the street when the E/W cars/streetcars have a green light?

That is correct. They can space in more scramble phase into the lights cycle for intersections with busier pedestrian traffic.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I still think building the DRL on King, removing the 504, and pedestrianizing Queen is the best idea. You can remove the Richmond and Adelaide bike lanes and add a lane there again as well. Queen streetcar is now fast as it had no traffic to deal with, and more long distance passengers are moved to the DRL.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I agree 100% with you insert. I was thinking about this last night and came to the same conclusion.

Wasn't this proposed before with opposition from Queen Street businesses? Something about their businesses being more auto Dependant than those on King.

 

[TOareaFan]

I still think building the DRL on King, removing the 504, and pedestrianizing Queen is the best idea. You can remove the Richmond and Adelaide bike lanes and add a lane there again as well. Queen streetcar is now fast as it had no traffic to deal with, and more long distance passengers are moved to the DRL.

I agree 100% with you insert. I was thinking about this last night and came to the same conclusion.

I would not disagree....but the DRL is, no matter what plan/route is selected, many years away. E/W travel is at a critical stage now....so I don't see efforts to create short term relief and planning long term relief as mutually exclusive ideas.

Sure you should be careful on how much you spend on the short term relief so as not to waste money (or, worse, take money away from the long term solution) but you do need to look at relief now. I guess that is why I am such a fan of giving the rush hour restrictions (even extending them) a much better effort....it has the possibility (no guarantees) of alleviating some of the current mess while spending very little hard capital.

 

[ehlow]

I would not disagree....but the DRL is, no matter what plan/route is selected, many years away. E/W travel is at a critical stage now....so I don't see efforts to create short term relief and planning long term relief as mutually exclusive ideas.

Sure you should be careful on how much you spend on the short term relief so as not to waste money (or, worse, take money away from the long term solution) but you do need to look at relief now. I guess that is why I am such a fan of giving the rush hour restrictions (even extending them) a much better effort....it has the possibility (no guarantees) of alleviating some of the current mess while spending very little hard capital.

Agreed. We need improvements to EW travel downtown within a few years, not 15 years from now when the DRL opens.