[W. K. Lis]

I don't get the accessibility thing on these streetcars. Outside of these vehicles nearly the entire system is not accessible for wheelchairs, few elevators on the subway, nearly all buses do not have foldout ramps, etc. Isn't this why we have Wheeltrans? Is the plan to eventually close that down?

See link.

...the TTC has made numerous accessibility improvements to its facilities, vehicles, and services, and is committed to achieving a barrier-free transit system, by 2025, in support of the Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act (AODA).

 

[smallspy]

The trick is to use MULTIPLE suppliers. That's what Vancouver does, using both Hyundai Rotem and Bombardier rolling stock for the Sky Train.

That's a ridiculous statement, considering that the two fleets of equipment are not even remotely compatible with each other. Their only commonalities is that they run on rails, use steel wheels, and have a carbody.

Ottawa had planned to buy Siemens LRTs to serve alongside their Alstom trains.

The Siemens LRTs were from an earlier (and might I add, ill-fated) plan to build an LRT system. There is no parallel with it and the current LRT plan. And if you're talking about the current O-train equipment, you're again talking about two completely different sets of operating equipment that have no bearing on each other. And that were tendered separately from each other.

Montreal's new subways are designed/produced by a Bombardier-Alstom consortium.

Only because Montreal botched the tendering process so badly that allowing (or maybe forcing?) the two companies to partner on the project was the only way to get everyone to drop their lawsuits against the City.

I don't get the accessibility thing on these streetcars. Outside of these vehicles nearly the entire system is not accessible for wheelchairs, few elevators on the subway, nearly all buses do not have foldout ramps, etc. Isn't this why we have Wheeltrans? Is the plan to eventually close that down?

Half of the subway system is accessible, and every single bus has a wheelchair ramp. But yeah, let's continue to fuck over the disabled. Riiiiiiight.

I may not completely agree with his politics, but Justin Trudeau does have the right answer for this - "because it's 2016".

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Admiral Beez]

That's a ridiculous statement, considering that the two fleets of equipment are not even remotely compatible with each other. Their only commonalities is that they run on rails, use steel wheels, and have a carbody.

They don't have to be interchangeable to send the right message to Bombardier that the TTC is willing and able to avoid sole-supplier sourcing for their rail stock needs. The TTC does this for buses; over last eight years buying from both Orion and Nova (Volvo), plus Ford for Wheel-Trans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Transit_Commission_fleet

I get your point on the disabled. My question was more about Wheel-Trains. But, returning to your comment on accessibility in the main system, IMO we're f#cking them over by not having a system that is entirely accessible. By having a system that is partially accessible, we're still f#cking them over. You're either 100% accessible or not, it's black and white, yes or no, there is no try, to paraphrase Yoda. If we really meant to follow or enact the 2005 disability legislation we would make every station and vehicle accessible, not over a decade in dribs and drabs. It's been eleven years and still the system is not accessible? Time for a class action suit?

 

[Amare]

The TTC does this for buses; over last eight years buying from both Orion and Nova (Volvo), plus Ford for Wheel-Trans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Transit_Commission_fleet

That's not necessarilly a good example. Orion went out of business since Daimler drove them to the ground, and the only two options left to supply buses after that was Nova and New Flyer. The TTC and New Flyer have had a little thing going on for the past decade where they would never meet the TTC's specs, so as a result NovaBus essentially won tenders by default.

 

[Admiral Beez]

That's not necessarilly a good example. Orion went out of business since Daimler drove them to the ground, and the only two options left to supply buses after that was Nova and New Flyer. The TTC and New Flyer have had a little thing going on for the past decade where they would never meet the TTC's specs, so as a result NovaBus essentially won tenders by default.

Good point, I didn't know Orion was done for.

So I guess the TTC is stuck with buying its buses from a sole-sourced firm, just like its rail stock.

Gaw'd help us if Bombardier began making buses, as we'd likely go towards that like a magnet. Too late, http://www.bombardier.com/en/media/...sfirstelectricbuswithbomba.bombardiercom.html

 

[W. K. Lis]

The TTC blacksmith has to make parts for the CLRV's and ALRV's.

Wondering if the TTC will get funding for a 3D printer for Flexity Outlook (& maybe Freedom) in the coming decades?

 

[drum118]

They don't have to be interchangeable to send the right message to Bombardier that the TTC is willing and able to avoid sole-supplier sourcing for their rail stock needs. The TTC does this for buses; over last eight years buying from both Orion and Nova (Volvo), plus Ford for Wheel-Trans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Transit_Commission_fleet

I get your point on the disabled. My question was more about Wheel-Trains. But, returning to your comment on accessibility in the main system, IMO we're f#cking them over by not having a system that is entirely accessible. By having a system that is partially accessible, we're still f#cking them over. You're either 100% accessible or not, it's black and white, yes or no, there is no try, to paraphrase Yoda. If we really meant to follow or enact the 2005 disability legislation we would make every station and vehicle accessible, not over a decade in dribs and drabs. It's been eleven years and still the system is not accessible? Time for a class action suit?

Unlike the US ADA, our ODA has a drop dead date of 2025.

It takes Millions of dollars and about 2 years to make a station accessibly. If you want all the stations done ASP, where is the money to come from and what get cut to pay for it??

TTC has a budget that is under funded by the city in the first place and it goes to state of repair as #1, maintaining existing service and maintenance and so on. At the end of the day, TTC has only x $$ to build x stations at a time to put in an elevator for each platform.

TTC has been on a tight timetable to make 2025 to the point it has been stated it will be miss with the lack of funds coming in. Now the Feb's are kicking in money for this, TTC will be able to meet the 2025 date by a year or 2.

TTC has being doing every other station on Line 2 as well 1 as first option and then starting to do the miss ones. The first ones were south of Bloor St and then branch out. Some station took a long time as they were tie in to various development project and only came on line once they were completed.

There are a few stations up in the air as what will happen to them to make them accessibility, since they have to be torn down in the first place as well trying to find a way to do it in the first place.

As for buses, TTC and every system was mandated by MTO to have accessibly buses by 2012 with a few exception. TTC streetcars were to be 2015, then 2018 and could be 2019 depending on what happen over the next 6 months. MTO wants new cars on all routes by the end of 2018, but not holding it at 100%.

Once all stations and streetcar lines are accessibly, TTC is planing on cutting 50% if not more of Wheel-Tram service.There will always be riders who will need Wheel-Tram and it becomes a lot easier for TTC to say who can use it then compare today.

At the end of of the day, come 2025, we will still be screwing the accessibility community over by only having ONE elevator in place of TWO for subway service. Having TWO elevators gives everyone a fight chance to use ONE, if ONE is out out of service. I expect to see legal action down the road to fix this one elevator issue.

The question again, what do you and everyone give up that they have today, as well in the pipeline to make all stations accessibly ASP????

 

[Johnny Au]

The TTC blacksmith has to make parts for the CLRV's and ALRV's.

Wondering if the TTC will get funding for a 3D printer for Flexity Outlook (& maybe Freedom) in the coming decades?

In the coming decades, Bombardier's successor would manufacture a 3D printer that can print out fully-functioning LRVs.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I think the TTC will keep a blacksmith on part time even after all of the CLRVs and ALRVs are retired probably to help make parts for the once kept for historical reasons and they also make the tips for the switch irons they drivers use to change switches manually

 

[Admiral Beez]

It's amazing to me that we still have manual switches.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/toront...ly-switch-directions-of-streetcar-tracks.html

We'll be running 21st century light rail on 19th century tech points.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

It's amazing to me that we still have manual switches.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/toront...ly-switch-directions-of-streetcar-tracks.html

We'll be running 21st century light rail on 19th century tech points.

Simple it's not cost effective to have all of them powered also sometimes they don't always get the signal from the back of the car properly to change back to the default position. I highly doubt that the TTC is the only system in the world that has single bladed switches.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I highly doubt that the TTC is the only system in the world that has single bladed switches.

Perhaps, but we do set a low bar for ourselves. Ugly overhead wires, points switched with crowbars, sole-sourced procurement that results in massive delays and continued running of rusted, worn out vehicles... and that's just the streetcars. These fools can't even ensure the air conditioning works before sending out subways.

And I know, I know, the contrarians here will quote the above and explain why or how we're in these situations; or my favourite, to explain it's not so bad, or quite common in other systems.

If Bordeaux can get rid over overhead wires, let's do it here. Get past the crutch that salt and cold prevents innovation, work it out, and get rid over the overheads.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Because the TTC has been so underfunded for the past 30 years, and demands for future budget cuts, Toronto just cannot implement improvements. Especially if we also force the TTC to keep deferring maintenance to meet budget demands.

 

[Bruno Republic]

Voters tend to favour politicians who promise no tax increases or even tax cuts and "fiscal responsibility", even though deferring maintenance and expansion inevitably costs more in the long run. So, budgets for transportation get cut or stay flat, even as the city grows and demand rises.

Unless voters accept that improving such services costs money and is a worthwhile investment in the future instead of prioritizing lower property taxes, nothing will change.

 

[Admiral Beez]

We need to get more innovative in funding besides straight taxation and fare prices.

Every condo built in Toronto should have been required to fund transit construction (not ops or maintenance), for example. A per sq.ft. fee on top of whatever fees the city charges now.