TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Can someone articulate how the company can fail this badly? This has been going on for years.
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Can someone articulate how the company can fail this badly? This has been going on for years.
Steve X
Senior Member
It's not like that line is moving any quicker either. Where is that Metrolinx prototype? It's already a month past Aug 31th.
At this rate they need 4 assembly lines to meet one every week.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I really don't understand how they can't get this right. I wish someone at BBD would leak to the media the actual reasons for these persistent delays. It's been three or four years of this nonsense.
drum118
Superstar
Steve X
Senior Member
I was surprised to read this:
Lefebvre said all six of the company’s recent deliveries have been on schedule, thanks to changes Bombardier has made to accelerate production.
Does that mean they'll actually speed up production this month and have 30 in service end of 2016?
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Meanwhile Toronto had/has no option to consider these other suppliers for our streetcars due to the TTC's stubborn adherence to track routing with turn radii and accessibility outside of the global industry norms. Had we changed the routing to eliminate the tighter turns (we have lots of decom'd track in Toronto) and followed the American standards for accessibility https://www.transportation.gov/accessibility we could have considered streetcars from other manufacturers that supply streetcars to American and European cities, including Siemens, Inekon, Alstom and Hitachi.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
It helps that L.A. and Detroit are able to bulldoze the corner buildings to make room for the track curves.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Meanwhile Toronto had/has no option to consider these other suppliers for our streetcars due to the TTC's stubborn adherence to track routing with turn radii and accessibility outside of the global industry norms. Had we changed the routing to eliminate the tighter turns (we have lots of decom'd track in Toronto) and followed the American standards for accessibility https://www.transportation.gov/accessibility we could have considered streetcars from other manufacturers that supply streetcars to American and European cities, including Siemens, Inekon, Alstom and Hitachi.
How much would that all have cost? It doesn't look like it would be cheap. Especially if it meant a rebuild of Union Station Loop, as your graphic indicates.
Voltz
Senior Member
Modifying the curves to a 20m radius means the tracks would be cutting across the sidewalks at some intersections. Maybe some buildings would be in the way.
And the track geometry did not limit us to Bombardier, there were other bidders.
And the track geometry did not limit us to Bombardier, there were other bidders.
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rbt
Senior Member
That's just horizontal curves component.
Another major non-standard item is vertical curves (transition from level to a slope) and the grade of the slope itself; so Queens Quay and Spadina ramps get a rebuilt and we expropriate probably $500M in property along Bathurst to flatten it.
In fact, I think the vertical issues are the worse of the 2. Horizontal curves would be straight forward to manage if it wasn't for all the extra powered wheels TTC vehicles require.
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Steve X
Senior Member
We'll see enough public outcry leading to half the system being abandon if we proceed with such thing.
I don't even consider Detroit a city outside their tiny urban downtown. If you can bulldoze abandon buildings and make use of empty lots of land to extend the sidewalk, there wouldn't be any demand to support a streetcars line nor public transit at all.
DSC
Superstar
You can't be serious? We missed that boat (in about 1925). A complete rebuild of curves and radii would be a MASSIVE job that would certainly involve demolishing many buildings. For better or worse we are stuck with our current 'track geometry' and (apart from adding a few extra turns and maybe a few more sections of track to provide better diversion routes) I think we should not waste any time thinking about this any further. If THAT is your plan I think you are really going to simply remove all streetcars.
crs1026
Senior Member
drum118
Superstar
I can't recall when, but increasing the radius at intersections was raised and TTC staff said no to most intersections. It may have been before the tender went out. Various sidewalks at corners would disappear, but no buildings if radius were increase. Have said that, there are intersections and other locations where TTC could easy increase the radius at no lost to anyone when reconstruction took place.
Regardless of the current radius, it doesn't prevent any supplier bidding on an TTC order today.
If the issue of getting new cars rose in the late 90's, TTC could have the chance to go to standard gauge as it started it rebuilding of the network track system, compare been asked 5 years after the work started.
Regardless of the current radius, it doesn't prevent any supplier bidding on an TTC order today.
If the issue of getting new cars rose in the late 90's, TTC could have the chance to go to standard gauge as it started it rebuilding of the network track system, compare been asked 5 years after the work started.
IRT_BMT_IND
New Member
It is literally impossible to expand the turning radius of the tracks, there is not enough room in the intersections. This wasn't even the main issue, Siemens placed a compliant bid and Skoda has a 100% low floor car with steerable trucks that can handle a 15m radius off the shelf.
And Bombardier underbid Siemens by 50 percent. Retendering with no local content requirements is great if you think the city can convince the province and the feds to put money towards foreign made cars.
And Bombardier underbid Siemens by 50 percent. Retendering with no local content requirements is great if you think the city can convince the province and the feds to put money towards foreign made cars.