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Siemens' bid was like 50% higher. BBD probably realized they bid poorly and could have easily added on another $300m. So they gave us this crap product since their cheap Mexican labour didn't work out as planned.

More likely, the reason they were able to bid so low is that they felt they had a cost advantage created by the Mexican operation.....and they figured they could produce these vehicles on time at lower cost than their competition, establish a clear superiority in the growing LRT market in North America and become the go to guy for vehicles. Probably had every confidence that they could handle the timelines and get the sort of quality they needed.

Hindsight may have improved our knowledge of their ability to do all that....but it does not change what was probably in play at the time.
 
Siemens' bid was like 50% higher. BBD probably realized they bid poorly and could have easily added on another $300m. So they gave us this crap product since their cheap Mexican labour didn't work out as planned.
I would have done the same at Siemens. When you're the world leader and make a renowned product that's in demand globally and thus your capacity is full, you don't need to play with potential clients who entertain lowball bids from rubbish competitors.
 
Siemens' bid was like 50% higher. BBD probably realized they bid poorly and could have easily added on another $300m. So they gave us this crap product since their cheap Mexican labour didn't work out as planned.

What crap product? The streetcars which don't have the invisibility cloak Rick Mercer mentioned seem great to me.
 
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What crap product? The streetcars which don't have the invisibility cloak Rick Mercer mentioned seem great to me.
When the Thunder Bay piece can't match up with the Sahagun piece, that's crap product. With good design, engineering and manufacturing, mating the two components regardless of plant should be a given.
 
What crap product? The streetcars which don't have the invisibility cloak Rick Mercer mentioned seem great to me.
It depends on your point of view. The (few) that have arrived and have been OKed by the TTC seem to work well (though they are still failing sooner than they are supposed to. (See TTC CEO Report Sept 2016, page 41). The problem is that the delays in delivery are (according to BBD) because parts made in factory A did not match up with parts made in Factory B and they failed the internal BBD testing. They may not be crap products when they (finally) arrive but ...... and THAT'S all the fault of BBD so maybe "crap company" is a better phrase.
 
It depends on your point of view. The (few) that have arrived and have been OKed by the TTC seem to work well (though they are still failing sooner than they are supposed to. (See TTC CEO Report Sept 2016, page 41). The problem is that the delays in delivery are (according to BBD) because parts made in factory A did not match up with parts made in Factory B and they failed the internal BBD testing. They may not be crap products when they (finally) arrive but ...... and THAT'S all the fault of BBD so maybe "crap company" is a better phrase.

That's why I was spouting "management gobbledygook" a few posts back.

Somewhere in the Bombardier empire, there is a drawing of what the parts of a Flexity are supposed to look like.

Some parts producer (The Mexico plant, perhaps, but possibly others) either
a) could not read the drawing, or
b) read the drawing, but couldn't produce to it

and then the parts producer either
a) didn't realise the product was off spec, and shipped it, or
b) realised it was off spec, but pushed the part out anyways, because production is all they get paid for

and then the Thunder Bay plant either
a) didn't notice the deviation, or
b) noticed the deviation, but couldn't influence the supplier to fix the problem, or
c) tried to improvise a solution that force fit things together, or
d) did nothing, in the hope the next part to arrive would be better

or e) the drawing (likely produced in a third country, possibly Germany) was crap in the first place
or
f) there weren't actually any drawings - so often construction and manufacturing is attempted before enough engineering detail has been provided,
and
some combination of the supplier and the Thunder Bay plant couldn't get anyone to issue a better drawing

(and so on) (cue the pointing fingers)

There is a whole shelf of books at Indigo dealing with this kind of thing, and lots of consultants who offer services for this. Excellent companies have detailed and structured processes to avoid each of the above scenarios - or at least to find and correct them when they arise. Bombardier hasn't managed to do that. Therefore, not excellent.

- Paul
 
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http://www.bombardier.com/content/d...ents/Bombardier-CountryBrochure-Mexico-en.pdf

That site has been around for a while. This is one of the first major non-Mexican contract they've done. There was speculation that the better staff are still making the equipment for Mexican orders.

They have been around for a while, yes, but "one of the first major non-Mexican contract"? Nope, not even close.

They've been building stuff for EMD/Progress Rail for over 15 years now, and have done contract work for freight car manufacturers for even longer.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
They have been around for a while, yes, but "one of the first major non-Mexican contract"? Nope, not even close.

They've been building stuff for EMD/Progress Rail for over 15 years now, and have done contract work for freight car manufacturers for even longer.

I thought (admittedly I don't pay close attention to freight) that was fairly small orders? 10 here, 20 there kind of things.

Edit: I'm mistaken. They did 1000+ locomotives with Bombardier by 2007; probably several thousand by now.

http://www.transportweekly.com/pages/en/news/articles/39702/
 
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Has anyone else noticed there's always a puddle of water on the floor at the very back in the morning? Is that a spot where water collects from mopping the floor and simply takes a really long time to dry out, or is something else happening? The seats are always dry, it's just the floor.
 
1992 is recent? The plants in Europe producing these things were purchased more recently than the former Concarril plant.

In particular, Bombardier acquired Deutsche Waggonbau, the producer of the ur-Flexity NGT6DD, in 1998.
 
Here is the 24th Flexity tram, TTC 4425,
IMG_1541.JPG
approaching the northbound Sullivan Street platform on the 510 Spadina line on Tuesday, October 18th, 2016. She entered service on Friday, October 7th, 2016, and this is her 12th day of service.
 

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