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JamesKoole
Active Member
The red button on the inside that opens the door works as a next stop request as well. Actually, the one outside also works...I saw someone press it away from a stop downtown thinking maybe the door would open and they could get on, but it activated the next stop instead.
dowlingm
Senior Member
It doesn't matter whether the MTBF failures are due to small problems or big ones, as long as they are failures which qualify under the contracted target. Yes the fleet is small but is now 50pc of the fleet size at which the contracted rate is to be hit. It had better start rising soon...
books
Active Member
From an engineering or from a legal point of view it may not matter if the failures are big or small. But from the public relations point of view it does matter. The media love a bad news story and they'll take a small problem on the Flexities and exaggerate it so that it becomes a serious problem plaguing the entire fleet. This in turn will affect the public's perception of streetcars and the TTC in general. This is not just a technical/legal matter it's a marketing issue as well: how are the TTC and public transit in general perceived by the citizens and voters of this city? The media do not report in an objective manner; reporters are sent out to dig up dirt on something like the late delivery of streetcars. It's not enough that the streetcars are being delivered late, they have to be faulty as well, or at least seen to be faulty as this allows for follow-up stories. Most journalism is sensationalist and this leads to distortions in the public perception of issues. I feel sorry for the TTC media relations people who have to deal with journalists who only want to hear bad news, rather than the truth. How many people actually got past the headline on that article? How many only watched the video and didn't read Brad Ross' qualifying comments? Most people probably didn't read the complete article, the headline and the video told them everything they thought they needed to know and this simply confirmed their existing attitudes towards the TTC and streetcars. They read the headline, watched the video, and moved on feeling smug.
True, we have hit the 50% mark and we're halfway to the sixty-car fleet. So let's wait and see what happens to the MDBF and see what sort of failures we're talking about as 2017 unfolds. It would be interesting to see how the MDBF of the CLRV fleet changed as it was introduced, maybe I'll do a bit of research and see what I can find.
dowlingm
Senior Member
Under the original contracted schedule, the gap between car 1 and car 60 was to be significantly narrower - there has been more time for TTC maintenance folks to get up to speed and for BBD to discover and fix bugs.
What I wonder is whether other light rail vehicles comparable to TTC's routinely produce this level of MTBF, or did BBD make a promise significantly above industry norm.
What I wonder is whether other light rail vehicles comparable to TTC's routinely produce this level of MTBF, or did BBD make a promise significantly above industry norm.
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
I've actually told a few poel how it works and also I've been on a few streetcars where the driver announced over the PA to push the button to open the door.
pstogios
Senior Member
The dominoes from Bombardier's sheer incompetence continue to fall.
TTC blames service cuts on streetcar delays
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/01/09/ttc-blames-service-cuts-on-streetcar-delays.html
TTC blames service cuts on streetcar delays
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/01/09/ttc-blames-service-cuts-on-streetcar-delays.html
Steve X
Senior Member
Doubt it. 35,000 km should very reasonable. Subway trains reaches over 1 million km in Asian cities. The TRs are at 720,000 km. 35,000 km for a streetcar should be easily obtainable.
Right now they are preforming worst than buses. I don't think the TTC ever did in the last decade achieve 14,000 km for buses. It's something they should be proud of. Of course new buses should be closer to 20,000km. If the Flexities don't reach over 35,000km, something is really wrong here. TTC should really report MTBF for different bus models. The Novas could be really good and hybrids driving them down. The 4 car TRs shouldn't be mixed with 6 car TRs as they just converted to OPTO causing a whole lot of problems. TTC numbers are a joke.
The Calgary C-trains are closer to 60,000km: http://www.metronews.ca/news/calgar...gary-transit-expects-improvement-in-2016.html
And more numbers: http://archives.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2012/06/13/muni-glad-bag-bus-yanked-out-of-service
Los Angeles Municipal Transportation Agency: Light-Rail Vehicles: 17,926 miles. = 28,849km
Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (SEPTA): City Trolley: 7,645 miles = 12,255km. Suburban Trolley: 43,730 miles = 70,3736km
San Francisco Muni: Light-Rail Vehicles: 2,258 miles. = 3636km
Although a few years old, https://www.sfmta.com/sites/default/files/agendaitems/7-10-2014 Benchmarking presentation.pdf#page=17
Brand new vehicles could be reaching 100,000 km. 35,000 km is a low bar for light rail.
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cplchanb
Senior Member
So is it about time the next car is supposed to leave the factory? What is the "schedule" for this so called ramp up....man schedule is such a profane and unspeakable term when used in the same sentence as bombardier lol
drum118
Superstar
Siemens interior of San Francisco first delivery Jan 13 car for the new fleet
cplchanb
Senior Member
I like it.. Simple and clean...Toronto should've used this for their most busiest routes to fit more riders...Siemens interior of San Francisco first delivery Jan 13 car for the new fleet
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
I don't think they relly want to have ones for certain routes, they would rather just be able to put them on any route. Alos given that on the buses that have seats like that they are usually the last ones taken I don't know how comfortable poel are with them. It's the same with the Toronto Rocket trains they could have put them all along the sides but instead they have a few forward/ rear facing ones because poel like to be able to see where they are going and sit forward.
drum118
Superstar
I should note that the SF Siemens cars have 49,000 mile (78,858 km) fail rate and a higher level than what we are getting.
We will know if there is any real improvement on the current 5,600 km, now there is 30 on site and maybe 4-6 more when the next rating comes out in March.
TTC will be a fool if they don't halt production after the 60th car if the failure rate is still no close to be what it supposed to be. Having TTC staff deal with these failure rate is pure poor use of resources, time and money. Even the TR are still below the failure rate with BBD still making changes to them and unacceptable.
BBD did proposed the Siemens design for seating from day one as well for the TR, but the chair of TTC wouldn't have any of it and got the commissioners to stay with the current design. You can have 2 sets of cars to have 2 designs of seating, but will be tough to keep the bench lines 100% bench cars at times. There a mix bags of what seating should look like, but you will never please everyone regardless.
Time is catching up to me since my 2012 trip, but don't recall seeing any trams during my travels with bench seat only.
We will know if there is any real improvement on the current 5,600 km, now there is 30 on site and maybe 4-6 more when the next rating comes out in March.
TTC will be a fool if they don't halt production after the 60th car if the failure rate is still no close to be what it supposed to be. Having TTC staff deal with these failure rate is pure poor use of resources, time and money. Even the TR are still below the failure rate with BBD still making changes to them and unacceptable.
BBD did proposed the Siemens design for seating from day one as well for the TR, but the chair of TTC wouldn't have any of it and got the commissioners to stay with the current design. You can have 2 sets of cars to have 2 designs of seating, but will be tough to keep the bench lines 100% bench cars at times. There a mix bags of what seating should look like, but you will never please everyone regardless.
Time is catching up to me since my 2012 trip, but don't recall seeing any trams during my travels with bench seat only.
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Steve X
Senior Member
You can't have bench seating with low floor trams. The bogie is in the way.
Again, TTC should be reporting in categories. What is the MDBF for minor issues vs major issues. How many times is it the doors oppose to brakes.
Again, TTC should be reporting in categories. What is the MDBF for minor issues vs major issues. How many times is it the doors oppose to brakes.
smallspy
Senior Member
CONTRACTUALLY, they have a 49,000mile fail rate. Considering that the first car was delivered 2 days ago and has not yet been accepted, we shall see if that actually comes to bear.
It should be noted that Calgary, which is currently in the process of receiving an order of 63 of the same vehicles, is having all sorts of issues with them, and has had to pull them out of service en masse 3 times now. Siemens is also behind on their scheduled deliveries.
Then you should tell that to CAF, Bombardier, Breda, etc. All have built low-floor trams with bench seats over the wheels. Of course, the downside is that you lower the overall capacity of the car with them.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.