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robmausser said:
Yes I think they are deciding to run as many Flexities as possible, with reduced frequency, rather than risk a disabled CLRV
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AlbertHWagstaff said:
Updated from the 1980s "run as many PCCs as possible, with reduced frequency, rather than risk a disabled CLRV". The CLRVs never handled bitter cold temperatures very well.
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Definitely, both of you are right. And yes, @robmausser, that is exactly what is happening, with Flexities operating on 501. 506 has shuttle buses operating
 
robmausser said:
Whichever engineer decided on compressed air for doors/brakes etc should be tarred and feathered.
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Yeah, there was never a successful precedent for that.

- Paul

PCC to Egypt.jpg
 
From what we have been seeing in the last few days, with a large number of Flexity cars being able to make onto 501 thanks to the CLRVs and ALRVs not operating, I think 501 could be a fully accessible route by the March Board possibly ( don't take my word for it, though ). Of course, if they did that, then the 3 ALRVs that actually get into service would likely be retired.
 
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crs1026 said:
Yeah, there was never a successful precedent for that.
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Someone may know more details for the A/CLRVs, but sitting on one of the replacement buses on 506 today forced me to think about it. And here's from the now expired Torontoist:
MARCH 5, 2015 AT 1:00 PM

CITYSCAPE
Maintaining the Streetcar Fleet in Winter Months
Upkeep on the streetcar fleet is tough work in cold weather, but a new generation of vehicles brings a different set of challenges for TTC mechanics.

BY DANIEL SELLERS • PHOTOS AND VIDEO BY GIORDANO CIAMPINI
[...]
In all, the Roncesvalles shop sends 100 streetcars into daily service; 104 more set out from its east-end sister, Russell Carhouse. Operators returning these cars report issues with them, the more complex of which are investigated by rail vehicle analyzers (or, briefly, RVAs). Frequently, and especially in winter, the problems that arise affect the complex system of pneumatic lines underneath the car body that operate the brakes, doors, and suspension on legacy cars. And although 113 people work out of the Roncesvalles Carhouse, only one specializes in maintaining and repairing these lines―the shop’s pneumatic analyzer, Tony Precopi.

“I love working on my own,” Precopi says. “And I like doing what I do.”

But the volume and frequency of air-line leaks can become overwhelming in winter, as the cold weather makes it more difficult to troubleshoot what might be wrong with a vehicle. Streetcars that struggle while out on service sometimes fix themselves once they get inside and warm up.

“What do I do? What do I change?” Precopi asks. “You look down here and see a 75-foot streetcar with all these valves; I can’t start changing every part.”

If Precopi can’t find the problem, chances are good the streetcar will act up again and be sent back to him the following day. “This time it may be left outside, which is a bonus,” he says. “As much as I hate that―because they’re freezing cold and they’re dripping with snow and ice―at least when it’s cold, this thing that wasn’t leaking yesterday, now all of a sudden it’s leaking.” [...]
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https://torontoist.com/2015/03/maintaining-the-streetcar-fleet-in-their-winter-months/

Excellent article to read in full.

On the 506 today were buses not normally seen in 'these parts' that I didn't recognize. Some of you out there will, seemed very new, but I've got to say I'm starting to lament the loss of the CLRVs. It's like riding in the MCI's instead of the Alexander Dennis DD GO buses. They're older, but much more comfortable in so many ways....
 
thettctransitfanatic said:
From what we have been seeing in the last few days, with a large number of Flexity cars being able to make onto 501 thanks to the CLRVs and ALRVs not operating, I think 501 could be a fully accessible route by the March Board possibly ( don't take my word for it, though ).
Click to expand...
With about 20 less streetcars needed with the 501 and 504 turning back early because of Roncesvalles/King/Queen intersection construction, and the 501L being run by buses, that's entirely possible, if they start construction with the March board.
 
W. K. Lis said:
Which is why the TTC switched to all-electric for new PCC streetcars (4300-...) after 1946. See link.
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I was waiting for someone to point that out ;-) Why TTC went back to air for the CLRV's after the success of the all-electric PCC's baffles me.

Of course, the air PCC's were retired within about 30 years of their birth. The CLRV's have lasted 40 years. I guess they win the prize overall, but they sure suck in the cold.

- Paul
 
nfitz said:
With about 20 less streetcars needed with the 501 and 504 turning back early because of Roncesvalles/King/Queen intersection construction, and the 501L being run by buses, that's entirely possible, if they start construction with the March board.
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The construction is starting with March Board ( March 31st ). So, maybe we need to prepare ourselves to only seeing CLRVs on 506, and not on Queen?
 
crs1026 said:
I was waiting for someone to point that out ;-) Why TTC went back to air for the CLRV's after the success of the all-electric PCC's baffles me.

Of course, the air PCC's were retired within about 30 years of their birth. The CLRV's have lasted 40 years. I guess they win the prize overall, but they sure suck in the cold.

- Paul
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There is likely a series of reasons for it. Here are my educated guesses:

1. Electrical capacity. Compression requires a small amount of energy over a long period of time to build up the pressure. While electric motors require a large amount of energy all at once
2. Cost. You will need separate electric motors for each function while you only need one motor for the compressor (I don't know back then if copper tubing/rubber hoses for compression were more or less expensive than electrical wiring)
3. Runaway Train. In case of a power failure I would rather have a reservoir of compressed air vs relying on overhead wires. Especially down Bathurst St

(noooo...the Soul Asylum song is in my head)
 
crs1026 said:
I was waiting for someone to point that out ;-) Why TTC went back to air for the CLRV's after the success of the all-electric PCC's baffles me.

Of course, the air PCC's were retired within about 30 years of their birth. The CLRV's have lasted 40 years. I guess they win the prize overall, but they sure suck in the cold.

- Paul
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That was the design and engineering trend of the 1970s. Compressed-air everything. Backlit signs and indirect lighting. Big, sealed windows. Quasi-air-conditioning. Mono-motors. All sorts of design ideas that seemed to have logic behind them but when looking back on those decisions decades later, didn't really do as well as everyone had hoped.

Dan
 
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smallspy said:
That was the design and engineering trend of the 1970s. Compressed-air everything. Backlit signs and indirect lighting. Big, sealed windows. Quasi-air-conditioning. Mono-motors. All sorts of design ideas that seemed to have logic behind them but when looking back on those decisions decades later, didn't really do as well as everyone had hoped.

Dan
Click to expand...

Those whiny chopper circuits have always annoyed me - only slightly less aggravating than the sound of a dentist's drill. Same with the subway cars of that vintage.

Give me the nice solid 'clack' of PCC power contacts closing.... and the solid jerk of acceleration that came with that.

- Paul
 
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