noctis
Active Member
sigh...i want to move to vancouver now...screw toronto!
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sigh...i want to move to vancouver now...screw toronto!
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Don't forget that Toronto has ordered 204 Bombardier streetcars, which will be about 20 cm wider than the 2 Brussels trams on loan currently in Vancouver.
DavidH
Senior Member
Are you aware that the Olympic Line service will be discontinued in three weeks after the Paralympic Games are over?
The Mad Navigator
Banned
You'd probably have to wait at least a few years before the Evergreen line opens.... and isn't it being converted to ICTS technology? It was originally slated to be an LRT line...
DavidH
Senior Member
Looks like it. No LRVs there.
noctis
Active Member
yea but they dont arrive until late 2016...so why bother? i want it now!
@DavidH meh who cares? at least the subway system is better than TTC and much more CLEANER
jswag
Active Member
"Better" is a difficult thing to determine, especially when considering two very different cities with two very different subway systems. Maybe you weren't making a serious comment, but having lived in Vancouver myself, I can tell you that their transit system has a few problems of its own including poor suburban service.
In addition, the Olympic line was built on already-existing tracks in an already-existing right-of-way. Transit City is ripping up roads and laying track down, a far more arduous process. But I digress.
noctis
Active Member
yea but the problems they are facing are not as bad as the ones we are facing in toronto, am i right? right now, nothing is going right for the ttc...transit city...hmm i'll see it then i'll believe it...
jswag
Active Member
Like I said, it's hard to compare the two city's systems, as they are so different. TransLink is currently drawing from their reserve fund to balance their budget but will soon be facing a deficit and will be forced to make service cuts. Both the TTC and TransLink face a disconnect between what they would like to/what they are required to do and the funding that is available. So in that sense, they are comparable; but I would also say that the TTC is getting some major projects underway without the impetus that the Olympics provide.
eddiek
New Member
I looked back through the pages of this post again and came across this on page twelve. So do you think we are going to get our first car this year?
It's interesting to see all this information that started in 2006, it's now 2010, four years later and " they dont arrive until late 2016"
Streetcars Of Future Seen At Cne
Bigger, Sleeker; TTC Hopes Next Generation Of Cars On Road In 2010
Natalie Alcoba
National Post
Tuesday, August 21, 2007
A glimpse into the possible future of streetcar transit in this city can be seen at the Canadian National Exhibition as the Toronto Transit Commission continues its drive to replace its fleet of ageing vehicles.
The $1.4-billion contract to replace all of the TTC's 248 cars with 204 longer, greater capacity vehicles is said to be North America's largest light rail deal, and will set the stage for Toronto Transit City, an ambitious proposal to add 120 kilometres of streetcar routes by 2021.
It's interesting to see all this information that started in 2006, it's now 2010, four years later and " they dont arrive until late 2016"
Streetcars Of Future Seen At Cne
Bigger, Sleeker; TTC Hopes Next Generation Of Cars On Road In 2010
Natalie Alcoba
National Post
Tuesday, August 21, 2007
A glimpse into the possible future of streetcar transit in this city can be seen at the Canadian National Exhibition as the Toronto Transit Commission continues its drive to replace its fleet of ageing vehicles.
The $1.4-billion contract to replace all of the TTC's 248 cars with 204 longer, greater capacity vehicles is said to be North America's largest light rail deal, and will set the stage for Toronto Transit City, an ambitious proposal to add 120 kilometres of streetcar routes by 2021.
DSC
Superstar
Quote: I looked back through the pages of this post again and came across this on page twelve. So do you think we are going to get our first car this year?
It's interesting to see all this information that started in 2006, it's now 2010, four years later and " they don't arrive until late 2016"
I think the order for all 204 new streetcars will be COMPLETE in 2016, some are supposed to arrive this year or early in 2011.
It's interesting to see all this information that started in 2006, it's now 2010, four years later and " they don't arrive until late 2016"
I think the order for all 204 new streetcars will be COMPLETE in 2016, some are supposed to arrive this year or early in 2011.
The Mad Navigator
Banned
W. K. Lis
Superstar
I was looking at the pretty pictures from the PDF's that Montréal has available (in French only) at their website (click on this link), I came across something interesting with Montréal's LRV's.
Toronto's streetcars that are order will be about 28m long and 2.54m wide. Montréal's LRV's could be 45m long and about 2.65m wide, according to the pretty diagrams in their PDF. Since the rumor is that the Transit City LRV's will use standard gauge, most likely they can be wider than the streetcars, so 2.65m in width could be used. Don't know about what the length Metrolinx and TTC is considering for the Transit City LRV's. (Buses are 12m long, CLRV's are about 15m long, and ALRV's are about 23m long, for comparison.)
Online translation outputs:
Shouldn't we already have some real specs by now?
Toronto's streetcars that are order will be about 28m long and 2.54m wide. Montréal's LRV's could be 45m long and about 2.65m wide, according to the pretty diagrams in their PDF. Since the rumor is that the Transit City LRV's will use standard gauge, most likely they can be wider than the streetcars, so 2.65m in width could be used. Don't know about what the length Metrolinx and TTC is considering for the Transit City LRV's. (Buses are 12m long, CLRV's are about 15m long, and ALRV's are about 23m long, for comparison.)
Online translation outputs:
Shouldn't we already have some real specs by now?
Platform 27
Active Member
First of all, Transit City being on standard gauge is pretty much a done deal--it's been announced as such in the public press. Secondly, TTC gauge is 6 cm broader than standard gauge, so I don't quite see Transit City lines having standard gauge tracks will automatically allow for wider vehicles---surely, if anything, it would be the opposite? In any event, when it comes to delimiting vehicle dimensions, the space between contraflowing tracks and platforms ("loading gauge") and the radius of turns are probably more important than track gauge.
TC will almost certainly be built with more generous curves and inclines that will greatly reduce the technical demands on the LRVs. I imagine a lot of the design compromises that Bombardier had to make to adapt the Flexity Outlook platform to work on the legacy network will be 'undone' if the TTC/Metrolinx exercise the order option to supply Transit City with more Flexitys. Flexitys are a wildly customizable family of vehicles, so the TC fleet could ultimately be quite different beasts than the legacy network fleet in terms of dimensions and truck layout while still sharing 95%+ of the same components. By being a bit more 'off-the-shelf' they also ought to be cheaper.
I'd be curious what the marginal cost increase is for moving from a 28m vehicle up to a 45m vehicle. Based on current bus ridership levels and the desire to keep headways under 6 minutes rather than push them up to 15 or so, I imagine 28m LRVs would actually be relatively empty for at least the first decade of operations on most Transit City lines. If extra length is just going to remain underutilized for at least the first half of the LRV's life, how much is it worth paying for?
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
Given that TC vehicles could be quite a bit different from the legacy LRVs, I always wondered why the TTC decided to have side platforms (as opposed to a more efficient central island platform) on TC lines, or why TC platforms are at curb height rather than high enough to allow high floor vehicles.