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Good Afternoon Everyone!...My name is Nia I'm new to this forum! I am so excited that you'll be expecting your 1st 100% low floor streetcar soon. I'm a true streetcar fan born and raised in Philadelphia where streetcars are still the workhorses of SEPTA. I'm especially interested in the LRVs due to the fact the SEPTA and TTC streetcars have similar operating characteristics. We here in Philadelphia will be watching closely to see how these cars will function once its under its own power. Are there any updates about the prototype or better yet the mock up that supposed to be unveiled? Have Bombardier released specs the of the LRVs yet? I have a thing for the technical stuff (guilty pleasure lol). I heard that the new LRVs will have pantographs already installed when delivered for eventual conversion! That will be a sight to see a 28 meter car operating with a trolley pole!!!

Thanks in advance
 
From what it looks like, the new streetcars will now be pantograph only, and the routes they will be introduced on will be modified to be able to handle them. Much of the network is already modified for pantographs. The biggest modifications will have to be done on intersections. In addition to the wiring, I'd imagine that they will modify street parking and signage in many places to allow for the longer cars.
 
If I recall correctly, they ordered the first few streetcars with both trolley pole and pantograph. The cost of the trolley pole is probably not that much, so they might as well leave it on to give those cars more flexibility. They will probably have some routes done by the time the new LRVs get here, but I doubt they'll have done the entire network.
 
Is pantograph incompatible with trolley wire run streetcars like the PCC? It would be a shame to have that yearly thing be gone permanently
 
The overhead catenary used for a trolley shoe is a smaller gauge compared with the catenary used for a pantograph. The thicker gauge allows for a higher voltage or more electricity to flow. To prevent the wire wearing in a grove with the collector shoe, the wire meanders from side to side, so the wearing away is spread out.

800px-CLRV_Trolley_Pole.jpg


pantograph.jpg
 
The thicker gauge allows for a higher voltage or more electricity to flow
Click to expand...

Thicker wire allows for more current to flow, not voltage.
Do the new cars actually use more power?
 
doug said:
Do the new cars actually use more power?
Click to expand...
Presumably. Isn't one of the issues with the ALRV is that it requires a bit more current than it currently gets, resulting in slower acceleration that optimal - or was that just BS I read on a thread here.
 
Do the new cars actually use more power?
Click to expand...

Going from memory (probably mostly from sources linked from Steve Munro's blog), the new LRVs will use more power then the ALRVs, since they're larger (although lighter for their size as compared to the A/CLRVs) and have more powerful motors. The ALRVs, though adequately powered, cannot push or tow another ALRV up some of the hills in the system. This is a requirement for the new LRVs. Also, in regards to switching to pantograph, apparently there was concern about a dewiring trolley pole on the new vehicles, both in that they would block much more of an intersection (where these dewirings frequently occur) and that it would take a while for an operator to walk to the back of a 30m vehicle to rewire it.

To prevent the wire wearing in a grove with the collector shoe, the wire meanders from side to side, so the wearing away is spread out.
Click to expand...

The new pantograph-friendly wiring across the city doesn't look like it meanders, but it appears that it's been connected to it's supporting wire in a way that would allow it to be easily adjusted to not be straight once the new LRVs start using that route.

My hope is in the future when we've converted to fully using the new LRVs, One of the lines (probably Harbourfront/Spadina) is kept cross-compatible with trolley poles and a fleet of heritage cars (PCCs, CLRVs, ALRVs and even some Witts if we can get a working set) can run on it during the summers.
 
W. K. Lis said:
The overhead catenary used for a trolley shoe is a smaller gauge compared with the catenary used for a pantograph. The thicker gauge allows for a higher voltage or more electricity to flow. To prevent the wire wearing in a grove with the collector shoe, the wire meanders from side to side, so the wearing away is spread out.
Click to expand...

Trolley wire is actually not particularly smaller, just shaped differently. Trolley wire is shaped like an "8", to allow it to be narrow enough to fit into the trolley shoes and still have some method of being held up by the support wires.

Pantograph wire is "D" shaped with the flat on the bottom. This gives a nice big contact surface for the wipers to press against, and the supports clamp the wire clear of the bottom.

Trolley wire can easily be used by pantographs. Pantograph wire on the other hand can not be by trolley poles.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
CDL.TO said:
Hey Dan,

Any idea if pantographs have any issues with trolley wire frogs at intersections?
Click to expand...

They do. There are a variety of ways to get around the issue - the best if you're going to run poles and pans at the same time is to put long strips on either side of the frogs that allow the pans to pass slightly underneath, while still allowing the poles to pass through without problem.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
I was impressed with the brand new trams that I saw in Reims, France, a few weeks ago. No overhead cables at all; it uses some kind of third rail system that is live only where the tram is in contact with it, so pedestrians can cross the tracks without any danger.
 
Bayer said:
I was impressed with the brand new trams that I saw in Reims, France, a few weeks ago. No overhead cables at all; it uses some kind of third rail system that is live only where the tram is in contact with it, so pedestrians can cross the tracks without any danger.
Click to expand...

Some french tram systems use the Alimentation Par Sol system. We discussed it earlier in this thread. It looks nicer than overhead wires, but it costs a lot more and is more unreliable.
 
reaperexpress said:
Some french tram systems use the Alimentation Par Sol system. We discussed it earlier in this thread. It looks nicer than overhead wires, but it costs a lot more and is more unreliable.
Click to expand...

Indeed - from what I have seen, there must be far fewer bean counters in France than here! Seriously, considering that it is in Reims, I understand favouring aesthetics over cost. Here, well... who would notice?
 
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