TOareaFan
Superstar
Maybe cause it is a couple of years away from being replaced by one of those fancy underground trains?
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- Thread starter Electrify
- Start date
OC Transpo has Presto readers at all 3 doors on artics. Now that they're pushing monthly pass users onto Presto (using period passes), the card readers are getting a lot of usage. I've also noticed a pretty significant decrease in the number of people using tickets compared to before Presto was introduced earlier this summer. At busy stops, a lot of the time it's a steady stream of people tapping Presto cards at the back 2 doors.
Electrify
Senior Member
Maybe cause it is a couple of years away from being replaced by one of those fancy underground trains?
More of a reason to put artics on the route NOW
doady
Senior Member
So TTC is just going to use these on regular routes? Mandatory front door boarding and all? LOL.
75% cost recovery ratio in 2012. Clearly, the TTC is not efficient enough.
Are you suggesting that 60 foot buses have twice the capacity of 40 foot buses? Even they did, that reduction in buses is only possible assuming that the buses travel at the same speed. And when a bus cames every 3 minutes or every 90 minutes, it's likely the boarding times will be twice as long. Which means more buses will be needed to maintain the same frequency.
75% cost recovery ratio in 2012. Clearly, the TTC is not efficient enough.
Are you suggesting that 60 foot buses have twice the capacity of 40 foot buses? Even they did, that reduction in buses is only possible assuming that the buses travel at the same speed. And when a bus cames every 3 minutes or every 90 minutes, it's likely the boarding times will be twice as long. Which means more buses will be needed to maintain the same frequency.
Electrify
Senior Member
Actually that was a comment regarding how this is a start more than anything else. Even if capacity remains about the same at first, as more of these buses are added, the line's capacity will increase.
One of the many causes of bunching is that there are too many buses on a route to serve it efficiently. Once you have buses running buses more than every 4 minutes in mixed traffic, even the most insignificant delay can cause bunching.
One pessimistic way to think about it is that with artics, the buses come prebunched. Even if this is the case, it looks much better to see 2 buses arrive together than 3.
ShonTron
Moderator
Which is why Bathurst makes no sense. Routes 29 and 196 make a lot more sense based on that criteria.
nhui06
Active Member
Still don't understand why Bathurst first. According to the TTC FAQ, Bathurst isn't even in the top 10.
If anything, Jane St and Don Mills should get these; use these buses for the previous LRT plans that got canned.
http://transit.toronto.on.ca/spare/0011.shtml
504 King/508 Lake Shore - 57,300
510 Spadina/509 Harbourfront - 55,400
32 Eglinton West - 48,700
35 Jane - 44,400
39 Finch East/139 Finch-Don Mills/199 Finch Rocket - 44,000
36 Finch West - 44,000
501 Queen - 43,500
29 Dufferin - 39,700
506 Carlton - 39,600
25 Don Mills - 38,000
54 Lawrence East - 36,300
512 St. Clair - 32,400
505 Dundas - 32,400
60 Steeles West - 29,800
34 Eglinton East - 29,500
urbandreamer
recession proof
Why not just put these buses--every 5 minutes or it's free--on the King and Queen LRT routes? I've been finding bus service overall is the better way around Toronto. (Less walking to get to a stop, less time stopping and starting, speed is faster, moves through and around traffic easier, and my LTE signal works best)
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doady
Senior Member
Umm... because King and Queen are getting light rail vehicles that are almost twice as long as an articulated bus?
Artics are one way to solve bunching if they have an all-door boarding scheme for the whole route. Otherwise, because of the increased boarding times, I think think artics are actually more prone to delays, which result in bunching, based on my experience with 19 Hurontario. IMO, mandatory front door boarding is the primary cause of bunching for both articulated and 40 foot buses on routes with extremely high ridership, and pretty much every bus route in Toronto has extremely high ridership.
Artics are one way to solve bunching if they have an all-door boarding scheme for the whole route. Otherwise, because of the increased boarding times, I think think artics are actually more prone to delays, which result in bunching, based on my experience with 19 Hurontario. IMO, mandatory front door boarding is the primary cause of bunching for both articulated and 40 foot buses on routes with extremely high ridership, and pretty much every bus route in Toronto has extremely high ridership.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Too bad we can't get turnstiles so that people will exit through the rear doors only. It's ridiculous to see able-bodied people trying to exit a bus (or streetcar) through the front door when there are obviously a crowd of people trying to get on through the front door.
I always use the rear doors to exit. Even with kids and a stroller, I used the rear doors to exit.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
There is no doubt that 32 Eglinton West is the busiest bus route. There are some people who had to skip a few buses intentionally at Eglinton station, because the buses are too crowded (and some are left behind), even if it means waiting an hour before a not-so-crowded bus arrives. Even worse, construction for the Eglinton Crosstown LRT is creating more delays (but at least the Crosstown LRT would ameliorate this substantially once complete).
ShonTron
Moderator
The only problem with 32 Eglinton West is the multiple branches peeling off in the middle of its route - there are three that operate during weekday rush/middays - the 32A (Skymark), the 32C (Trethewey) and 32D (Emmett). Route 34 has no regular branches except the rush hour extension to Kingston Road. Route 7 has no scheduled branches either, Route 29 just has the scheduled 29A Tycos short turn (with the closure of the Dufferin Street bridge that ended the CNE grounds branches).
Increased headways for larger vehicles are one thing on a single route, but multiple branches makes it a bigger deal at the ends, one thing if a bus comes every 6 minutes instead of every 4 minutes (where frequencies are such artics might make sense, rather than on Bathurst), but with branches, could be a bus every 18 instead of every 12 minutes.
With only one rush hour branch and very high peak and midday frequencies, Dufferin makes a lot of sense. Don Mills too, it has no branches (not counting the 81 Thorncliffe Park "branch"). Jane only has branches at the far north end of the route, so it makes sense too.
Increased headways for larger vehicles are one thing on a single route, but multiple branches makes it a bigger deal at the ends, one thing if a bus comes every 6 minutes instead of every 4 minutes (where frequencies are such artics might make sense, rather than on Bathurst), but with branches, could be a bus every 18 instead of every 12 minutes.
With only one rush hour branch and very high peak and midday frequencies, Dufferin makes a lot of sense. Don Mills too, it has no branches (not counting the 81 Thorncliffe Park "branch"). Jane only has branches at the far north end of the route, so it makes sense too.
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Johnny Au
Senior Member
ShonTron, I am proposing that only 32 and 32A can have the articulated buses. 32C and 32D can have regular buses.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
32 Eglinton West and 34 Eglinton East has and will have construction of the Eglinton Crosstown LRT. There would be too many detours along Eglinton Avenue during the construction period making the articulated buses too much of a hassle to handle.
datamouse
Active Member
Just saw a training bus running on Leslie. No time to snap a picture though.