News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 02, 2020
 9.6K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
 41K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
 5.4K     0 

That has never been a plan that has been conveyed to me.

And honestly, it makes no sense as the couplers are a major maintenance expense that they would like to do without if they can. More coupling and uncoupling means more wear-and-tear, which means more maintenance.

Dan
The trains are to be supplied as six-car sets of three married pairs as shown in the drawing below. This differs from the TR trains on Lines 1 and 4 which are explicitly configured as 6- and 4-car units respectively.

The A cars are cab cars with full controls. The B and C cars are intermediates. All B and C cars will have hostler controls at one end for manual operation as independent sets. This is a different configuration from the TRs which only operate as full trainsets.

The cab-end truck of the A cars will not be powered. This is to avoid ATC position measurement problems caused by wheel slip/spin. A full 6-car train will have 10 powered trucks.

The only difference in the specification between a “B” car and a “C” car is that the combination “A-B” (including a cab car) or “B-C” (without a cab car) is possible, but not an “A-C” pair.

From Steven Monroe's blog.

The main difference would be that the lead cars are going to be trailers or non powered cabs. Not sure how that makes them less prone to wheel slip.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JBR

Let me bring that forward for the preview-challenged and the click averse:

1701452876240.png


Now, let me integrate those 2 lists - U.S./Canada Transit systems by trips: (note that I have changed the bottom 2 entries to reflect all agencies by trips)

1) New York
2) Toronto
3) Montreal
4) Vancouver
5) Los Angeles
6) Chicago
7) Washington D.C.
8) Boston
9) Philadelphia
10) Newark
 
Last edited:
The 508 currently runs on King S and (though I am far from a toddler) I too was quite happy to see one (and actually ride on it) the other day. It only runs (Long Branch to Parliament) in weekday peak periods.

It actually continues to Dundas and Broadview. Sometimes they’ll let you stay on, which we did today, and the driver let my kid go in the cab.

Not sure they’re supposed to do that, but it made his week.
 
The trains are to be supplied as six-car sets of three married pairs as shown in the drawing below. This differs from the TR trains on Lines 1 and 4 which are explicitly configured as 6- and 4-car units respectively.
Configured as such, sure.

But the 4-car TRs are made up of two identical 2-car pairs electronically, and the 6-car ones are made up of two slightly different 3-car couplets.

Just because they can't be taken apart easily doesn't mean that they aren't configured the way they are.

The A cars are cab cars with full controls. The B and C cars are intermediates. All B and C cars will have hostler controls at one end for manual operation as independent sets. This is a different configuration from the TRs which only operate as full trainsets.
-ish.

The B cars have air compressors, the A and C cars do not. This is the same as the TRs. And basically the same as the T1s (and Hs, and M1s, and Gs), where there is an A and B car that each provide different functions to the pair.

The cab-end truck of the A cars will not be powered. This is to avoid ATC position measurement problems caused by wheel slip/spin. A full 6-car train will have 10 powered trucks.
This is the same as the TRs, and most of the modern subways worldwide. And it's not actually to do with ATC systems, although that ends up being a very nice side benefit of it.

Back in the 1960s, a number of different organizations were researching the wheel-rail interface. One of the things noted was that the first pair of wheels (the wheels on the first axle) in a consist had a considerably lower quotient of friction than all of the others trailing. It turns out that this lead set of wheels is cleaning the railhead as it passes, leaving the rest of the wheels with a very clean - and grabby - surface to hold on to when accelerating and braking.

This means a couple of things. One: it is ideal to lower the braking force on that lead set of wheels as it is considerably easier to lock them and have them slide, since they have less friction on the railhead. Two: there was very little difference in the cleaning effect if the axle provided traction power or not. A non-powered axle did just as much work cleaning the railhead as a powered one did. So in this case it was felt that not powering it would save on costs (fewer traction motors, gearboxes, etc.).

The only difference in the specification between a “B” car and a “C” car is that the combination “A-B” (including a cab car) or “B-C” (without a cab car) is possible, but not an “A-C” pair.
It might help if you understand what the difference between the different car types is if you know what they do/what they are for. See above.

From Steven Monroe's blog.
Munro.

The main difference would be that the lead cars are going to be trailers or non powered cabs. Not sure how that makes them less prone to wheel slip.
That's not specifically true. The trucks underneath the cabs will be unpowered. See above.

And they will be prone to wheelslip, just like every other truck on the train. The difference is that they will only be prone to it in one force - braking. Not accelerating.

Dan
 
The City of Toronto is accelerating some work to install streetcar tracks on Adelaide Street, which will require a full intersection closure of Adelaide Street West and Bay Street.

The intersection of Adelaide Street West and Bay Street will be closed to vehicular traffic from 7 a.m. on December 11 until 7 a.m. on December 16.

During the full road closure:
  • No through traffic will be allowed at the intersection of Adelaide Street West and Bay Street
  • Two-way local traffic loops will be set up
  • Cyclists will have to dismount through the intersection
1701464776683.png

 
Let me bring that forward for the preview-challenged and the click averse:

View attachment 524201

Now, let me integrate those 2 lists - U.S./Canada Transit systems by trips: (note that I have changed the bottom 2 entries to reflect all agencies by trips)

1) New York
2) Toronto
3) Montreal
4) Vancouver
5) Los Angeles
6) Chicago
7) Washington D.C.
8) Boston
9) Philadelphia
10) Newark
Toronto gets the least operational subsidies from the state/province and feds in the list. Toronto is way underfunded.
 
Toronto gets the least operational subsidies from the state/province and feds in the list. Toronto is way underfunded.

Certainly I could support more operating subsidy for TTC, particularly in the near term; though I don't think a comparison with U.S. systems in particular, that outside of NYC have comparatively low modal share is a useful one. A global perspective is better

Here are the Fare Box Recovery Ratios of systems worldwide, from the most profitable down:

1701560586857.png


I have stopped at the TTC simply because its a long list.

For anyone interested in the rest:

 
If accelerating Adelaide would lead to reopening and thus less pressure on King, I imagine there is little limit to what would be authorized. Streetcar queuing has been getting a lot of attention and banning left turns from University at King is probably all the way off the table for lack of a direction to divert it
 
Certainly I could support more operating subsidy for TTC, particularly in the near term; though I don't think a comparison with U.S. systems in particular, that outside of NYC have comparatively low modal share is a useful one. A global perspective is better

Here are the Fare Box Recovery Ratios of systems worldwide, from the most profitable down:

View attachment 524425

I have stopped at the TTC simply because its a long list.

For anyone interested in the rest:

I question the reliability of these lists, especially after COVID. BART is certainly not doing 80% cost recovery this year.

Out of the services listed, how many are operating coverage feeder bus services? If we broke out farebox recovery by modes, I think the subway would be break even, or close to break even. The MTR, Japanese systems, London Tube, BART, MRT, etc. do not have a mandate for coverage service of an entire sprawly city, which the TTC has.

Either way, I'm pretty sure the TTC has low provincial/state/federal support among worldwide transit systems.
 
I question the reliability of these lists, especially after COVID. BART is certainly not doing 80% cost recovery this year.

If you follow the link, the year the data was collected is present; it varies by authority; but the vast majority is pre-covid, ~2016.

Out of the services listed, how many are operating coverage feeder bus services? If we broke out farebox recovery by modes, I think the subway would be break even, or close to break even. The MTR, Japanese systems, London Tube, BART, MRT, etc. do not have a mandate for coverage service of an entire sprawly city, which the TTC has.

An entirely fair point on fares.

In Toronto, GO is separated out for its own calculation, in some other places commuter rail may be blended in; doing an apples to apples comparison can be a challenge.

Equally, the MTR makes a ton of money off its real estate which is factored into the calculation, I believe, and many other systems have substantial retail revenue.

The TTC does have some signature property leased out, albeit much of it at sub-market rates, and it doesn't have any real estate development arm as such.

Either way, I'm pretty sure the TTC has low provincial/state/federal support among worldwide transit systems.

I think that's probably a fair take. My only point at the start of the tangent was to poke at a very broad brush.
 
If the streetcars and subway lines were counted separately from the bus routes, the TTC's streetcar and subway routes would show they make money that helps the money losing bus routes...

...EXCEPT when there is construction or shutdowns. Then they lose money.

Other sabotage, such as lack of priority over the single-occupant autos (like along St. Clair and Spadina, left turning vehicles going ahead of the 100+ on the streetcars), no traffic signals at subway stations for both buses and streetcars, and other such strategics against streetcars.

That is why they want to replace the Blue Night bus network with streetcars overnight. The TTC will make money using streetcars instead of buses.
1701706814835.png
 
If the streetcars and subway lines were counted separately from the bus routes, the TTC's streetcar and subway routes would show they make money that helps the money losing bus routes...

...EXCEPT when there is construction or shutdowns. Then they lose money.

Other sabotage, such as lack of priority over the single-occupant autos (like along St. Clair and Spadina, left turning vehicles going ahead of the 100+ on the streetcars), no traffic signals at subway stations for both buses and streetcars, and other such strategics against streetcars.

That is why they want to replace the Blue Night bus network with streetcars overnight. The TTC will make money using streetcars instead of buses.
View attachment 524622

Walter.............

That's enough.

The threads are for on-point news, analysis or questions; not misinformation and repetitive polemics.

****

For the record the expansion of overnight streetcar service has nothing to do with making more money; it has to do w/the fact there will shortly not be enough space to store the streetcars overnight, so they have to keep them on the road (err rail)
 
Walter.............

That's enough.

The threads are for on-point news, analysis or questions; not misinformation and repetitive polemics.

****

For the record the expansion of overnight streetcar service has nothing to do with making more money; it has to do w/the fact there will shortly not be enough space to store the streetcars overnight, so they have to keep them on the road (err rail)
That's Walter now??
 

Back
Top