[crs1026]

The homeless people who I see on the subway who are most problemmatic are not merely in need of lodging, they are most frequently in a mental state where they are unlikely to be candidates for housing in a shelter... even if offered they will be unable to comply with rules about disorderly conduct, or simply don't want to be cooped up indoors, or have behaviours eg hoarding, poor hygeine that will get them ejected.

Obviously we can't incarcerate people, but some form of intervention is needed that goes beyond offering the roof and addresses the mental state and turmoil.

Perhaps these folks will always prefer an outdoor life, but the facilities and support that is needed is beyond mere logistics.

We need to get on with solving that problem and not making do by using transit or public parks.

- Paul

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The homeless people who I see on the subway who are most problemmatic are not merely in need of lodging, they are most frequently in a mental state where they are unlikely to be candidates for housing in a shelter... even if offered they will be unable to comply with rules about disorderly conduct, or simply don't want to be cooped up indoors, or have behaviours eg hoarding, poor hygeine that will get them ejected.

Obviously we can't incarcerate people, but some form of intervention is needed that goes beyond offering the roof and addresses the mental state and turmoil.

Perhaps these folks will always prefer an outdoor life, but the facilities and support that is needed is beyond mere logistics.

We need to get on with solving that problem and not making do by using transit or public parks.

- Paul

We definitely need to stream people better. At the same time - smoking crack openly on the trains is not ok - and our turn the other cheek approach is a pretty damning indictment on our head in the sand approach to the issue.

AoD

 

[Bordercollie]

Community centres on a temporary basis - if there is a will to deal with the issue, we can use them. There is hygiene facilities available there as well. You'd also need to stream - how you deal with someone who is just plain homeless is going to be dramatically different than someone with substance/mental health issues.

Whatever happens, the transit system is meant for transportation, not housing people - and policies must be driven to focus on the former group.

AoD

I don't think enough is being done to prevent this kind of thing from happening. If you look at the interchange stations such as Yonge and Bloor and ST George, Spadina. Homeless people camp out there full time and the TTC does nothing about it. They even setup their own "turf".

Having transit police rotate between these spots would reduce this from happening.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I don't think enough is being done to prevent this kind of thing from happening. If you look at the interchange stations such as Yonge and Bloor and ST George, Spadina. Homeless people camp out there full time and the TTC does nothing about it. They even setup their own "turf".

Having transit police rotate between these spots would reduce this from happening.

It gets back to @Northern Light's point that we seem to have a special tolerance treating public transit as the dumping ground. It is especially odd when there is actually a TTC bylaw against loitering. In other words, a choice was made to not enforce the bylaws.

AoD

 

[crs1026]

We definitely need to stream people better. At the same time - smoking crack openly on the trains is not ok.

AoD

Agreed.

As a society, we err on the side of tolerance - but given the adverse impacts, I think it's quite reasonable to decree minimum behavioural standards that must be met if one wishes to use public transit (or other public resources such as libraries, swimming pools, etc). Smoking crack on the subway should not be lumped in with, say, having a drink in a public park. The impact on others is much greater.

(If anybody can do something about rauccous kids letting off steam after school on the 76 bus, I'm in favour, but that's a different thing)

- Paul

 

[Richard White]

I don't think enough is being done to prevent this kind of thing from happening. If you look at the interchange stations such as Yonge and Bloor and ST George, Spadina. Homeless people camp out there full time and the TTC does nothing about it. They even setup their own "turf".

Having transit police rotate between these spots would reduce this from happening.

What we really need is our own version of the British Transport Police.. not the wannabe cops that make up the Special Constables.

 

[SubHuman]

The homeless people who I see on the subway who are most problemmatic are not merely in need of lodging, they are most frequently in a mental state where they are unlikely to be candidates for housing in a shelter... even if offered they will be unable to comply with rules about disorderly conduct, or simply don't want to be cooped up indoors, or have behaviours eg hoarding, poor hygeine that will get them ejected...

The subway lines are also being continually shut down by them climbing onto the tracks and running into the tunnels. Apart from the disruption, they're also (obviously) endangering themselves (and apparently all those "tracks are for trains" PA system announcements unsurprisingly don't seem to have worked to discourage them).

 

[generalcanada]

The subway lines are also being continually shut down by them climbing onto the tracks and running into the tunnels. Apart from the disruption, they're also (obviously) endangering themselves (and apparently all those "tracks are for trains" PA system announcements unsurprisingly don't seem to have worked to discourage them).

source?

 

[Bordercollie]

What we really need is our own version of the British Transport Police.. not the wannabe cops that make up the Special Constables.

Hire real police to patrol the area. Again it's not just Toronto that is having this issue, it's worse in NYC

 

[Richard White]

Hire real police to patrol the area. Again it's not just Toronto that is having this issue, it's worse in NYC

That's what the British Transport Police are.

They are a police unit that are armed (sometimes heavily). They can and will address threats on the transit systems of the UK.

 

[gabe]

Homeless sleeping in suburban GO stations has also become very prevalent in the last 2 years - something which absolutely was not pre-covid.

The homeless population has really grown out in the suburbs where I live. It's everywhere. I take the GO train to Kitchener, lots of homeless there too, along with Guelph, even smaller towns like Acton has a homeless encampment near the tracks.

There is no place for them to go. The shelters are full. Nothing is being done. We just kick the can down the road. It's so sad.

 

[Richard White]

The homeless population has really grown out in the suburbs where I live. It's everywhere. I take the GO train to Kitchener, lots of homeless there too, along with Guelph, even smaller towns like Acton has a homeless encampment near the tracks.

There is no place for them to go. The shelters are full. Nothing is being done. We just kick the can down the road. It's so sad.

Not to derail this anymore than it already is but it is less about nowhere to go and others not wanting to go.

The homeless woman at the building I manage has mental health issues. She refuses to go to shelters and even if she did not they would reject her for drug use. She unfortunately is an EDP.

Other places like the Allen Garden Encampments or the Clarence Square Encampments have squatters who refuse to leave. For one reason or another they refuse to leave and get violent when you try to force them out.

The issue is optics. There are too many bleeding hearts out there that claim arresting these individuals is a violation of their rights. For far too long, people have been hiding behind the guise of rights violations and disabilities which only makes this situation worse.

People love to say it is a violation of their rights when homeless persons are forced to seek treatment or shelter but yet they also complain when nothing is done. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[dowlingm]

This already happens at Spadina Station and Union Station from 20:00 to about 05:00. The City has converted a few decommissioned buses exactly for this purpose. Though sometimes they’ll use the BYD electric buses when residents complain about the noise.

It’s interesting because when I saw the shelter bus earlier I thought “finally a use for the Proterras to get their costs off TTC’s books”

I certainly don’t care to be around anti social activity on transit, and I would rather my fellow citizens have a more dignified place to exist than across a subway seat. But the court decision forbidding the clearing of the encampment in Waterloo region due to lack of shelter space needs to be kept in mind. if the city sets its mind to clear the system, one way or another it is likely to backfire.

 

[PL1]

.There are too many bleeding hearts out there that claim arresting these individuals is a violation of their rights.

It *is* a violation of their rights. The question is whether this would be a reasonable infringement. I'd argue no, especially when the state has done sweet FA to actually help these people

 

[Bordercollie]

It *is* a violation of their rights. The question is whether this would be a reasonable infringement. I'd argue no, especially when the state has done sweet FA to actually help these people

If the person is a potential harm to themselves or to others, and are unable to care for themselves can result in being put on a form and be held against your will.

The fact that they are not coherent and using drugs should be enough reason to violate their rights and get them treatment. Even if it's against their will.