Toronto1834
Active Member
Queensway Bus Garage does not currently have E-Buses, which is where they operate the 203 from.
|
|
|
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
Steve X
Senior Member
Using an EV would reduce emissions within the park. Activists will see that as a plus but we know gas just blows around.
Undead
Senior Member
I get that, but EVs merely shift the pollution to wherever the battery minerals are being mined. For example, in places like Indonesia they're clearcutting rainforest to mine the rare earths which go into EVs. Very not green.
chrisw
Active Member
It's not hypocritical to ban cars while allowing diesel buses. It's still green, and there are benefits for having a park without cars.
Steve X
Senior Member
They are just fooling the uneducated public while profiting on new innovations. I'm sure many places are using fossil fuel to generate the electricity to charge the batteries on top of all the emission created while they deliver the raw materials and while manufacturing these EVs.
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
In Europe, they use much more wind turbines than North America to generate the electricity for EVs. Unfortunately, Doug Ford in his "wisdom" shortly after taking office in 2018, cancelled 758 renewable energy projects, including solar and wind initiatives. Making Ontario more reliant on oil from some places like Alberta and the Middle East.
lastcommodore
Active Member
it's far more economical and sane to build out more nuclear generation, which thankfully Ford has been partial to with the refurbishment of Pickering and the new plant at Port Hope.
Even without all that and with a slump in nuclear power thanks to Pickering's partial shutdown, our energy is still far cheaper and yet far more green than the likes of California, the UK, and Germany.
Undead
Senior Member
Wind turbines aren’t green either. Like EVs, they rely on rare earths which have to be mined. They also end up as ewaste in landfills at their end of life. And don't forget that China produces nearly all wind turbines which poses a risk to energy security if we were to become reliant on their turbines (just like Europe with Russian gas).
All of this applies to solar panels as well.
Nuclear is the way to go and as lastcommodore said, Ontario's nuclear and hydro based grid is one of the cleanest in the world.
Sorry for the OT, but it's important to call out green BS.
And to bring this back slightly on topic, the greenest thing anyone can do in terms of transportation is simply driving less and taking transit more often. That's it. Doesn't matter that the bus is diesel.
All of this applies to solar panels as well.
Nuclear is the way to go and as lastcommodore said, Ontario's nuclear and hydro based grid is one of the cleanest in the world.
Sorry for the OT, but it's important to call out green BS.
And to bring this back slightly on topic, the greenest thing anyone can do in terms of transportation is simply driving less and taking transit more often. That's it. Doesn't matter that the bus is diesel.
Last edited:
urbanclient
Active Member
I agree that nuclear is the way to go. However, there is a lot of misleading, if not incorrect information here though. Green is relative. The greenest thing would be to do nothing, travel nowhere, stop breathing so to stop emitting carbon dioxide and human waste.
EVs are more green than ICE cars assuming they're driven a decent amount, even if the electricity is generated by the dirtiest coal. EVs are more carbon intensive at 0 km. But after a certain mileage the carbon savings of EVs will offset their higher initial carbon cost relative to combustion engine cars. Given how clean electricity is in Ontario, the carbon payback period is quite short for EVs. We're talking a few years.
It's fossil fuel lobby propaganda that pushes the narrative that EVs, solar and wind are somehow more carbon intensive than the gas burning cars from oil extraction to oil refinery to gas station to internal combustion.
An electric bus will be greener than a diesel bus, even when accounting for initial carbon costs and the cost of battery disposal.
Photovoltaic solar panels don't rely on rare earths. Solar is greener than burning fossil fuels to generate electricity. A panel will last 30+ years.*
Even if wind energy relies on petrochemicals to make carbon fibre rotor blades, it's still greener than burning fossil fuel. A blade will last 20-30 years.
As with any electricity generation method, regular maintenance is required. The actual main problem with wind and solar is intermittency. Grid operators can't turn them on or off at will to match demand.
We can recognize that fossil fuels may always have a place in the world (we need petrochemicals for agriculture etc... etc...), while also recognizing that EVs and renewable energy are greener than fossil fuels for transportation. Here is a long video to explain:
*A Swiss paper showed panels kept 80+% nominal power after 30 years. https://www.researchgate.net/public...long-term_reliability_of_photovoltaic_modules
Last edited:
RapidTransit
Active Member
I realize that. But it's a weekend a weekend only service. They cab easily get an EV from Mount Dennis.
smallspy
Senior Member
No, they can't.
First off, the drivers need to be trained on them. Very few of the drivers at Queensway are, and those are just drivers who've recently moved from other divisions. And you can't force them to work on a weekend if they've chosen work that gives them weekends off.
Second: are the runs even short enough to allow them to operate battery buses on them? If they are all out all day, they may be out too long. Which leads to the new complication of having to run a new bus out in the afternoon and take the old bus back to charge it - and staffing that process.
It may not be a bad idea to move the route to Mount Dennis or Wilson in order to use the battery buses on it. But it's not nearly as simple as pointing at a route and saying "this one".
Dan
zang
Senior Member
Can we stop with the right-wing talking points?
There are few things on this planet that are 100% green. That said, pretty much every green energy solution is arguably cleaner in the long run. Willfully seeking to make the perfect the enemy of the good is toeing the line for billionaires.
nfitz
Superstar
Perhaps we can just stay away from this off-topic stuff. This is little more relevant than whether plastic is better environmentally than raping the forests of it's CO2 sequestration system for paper bags.
A discussion thread about societal benefits of various generation schemes could go in the https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/forums/general-discussions.13/ area, if some really want such a discussion.
A discussion thread about societal benefits of various generation schemes could go in the https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/forums/general-discussions.13/ area, if some really want such a discussion.