Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Is making the Queen's Quay and Bay Tunnel bus-compatible possible? Or is the turning radius at QQ too small and the tunnels may be too narrow?
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- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
Amare
Senior Member
In short, not possible without severe modifications. The tunnels throughout the whole thing are pretty much too narrow for that kind of operation.
I wont even mention the financial cost, since it makes the whole idea redundant.
amnesiajune
Senior Member
Are they? Buses are barely any wider (102 inches vs. 100 inches) than streetcars.
max
Active Member
To start with, turns will be an issue, since a streetcar is on a track it makes every turn the same way every time. Bus drivers are turning a big analog controller and so the turns will vary. Even on straightaways a bus will not go perfectly straight as drivers must continually make corrections, but a streetcar doesn't need the same margin. All this means a streetcar can get away with a narrower lane, and when you're building a tunnel, you'll likely build the narrowest one needed for your target vehicle.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Amare
Senior Member
Try turning a bus in one of those narrow tunnels and see what the end result would be.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
New Event: Drive your city bus into the Queens Quay Streetcar Tunnel.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Guided buses are problematic, as Adelaide is discovering, not to mention that for Onion Station, as the layers are peeled back, those 'guided buses' would have to be electric, as there's no ventilation for internal combustion vehicles.
Adelaide: Australasian Bus and Coach
ADELAIDE PUBLIC TRANSPORT LAGGING BEHIND, SAYS EXPERT
Date: 19.03.2018
https://www.busnews.com.au/industry-news/1803/adelaide-public-transport-lagging-behind-says-expert
Buses aren't the answer, even if they could fit in that tunnel.
DSC
Superstar
You may not have noticed but stretcars are on tracks so have little or no possibility of veering off course, buses can and do move around and need more space.
crs1026
Superstar
^Need enough clearance that you can offload the bus and evacuate people in an emergency.
- Paul
- Paul
crs1026
Superstar
What troubles me is that none of the signage outside the tunnel is affirmative.... needs a big green arrow saying “Go here”. It’s all “Don’t “ messages.
I do find QQ confusing. In an ambiguous situation, one needs to give the driver an obvious “Do” option. Otherwise, the driver is left performing a “process of elimination” which may take longer than the driver has available.
Plus, the “Do Not Enter” signage is not clarified by lane. The sign to the right of the tunnel does not clarify and can be misread as a center mounted sign indicating no entry to the correct lanes, thereby discouraging the driver from doing the correct turn.
I’m sure it all complies with the HTA but that doesnt mean it’s the optimal human factors treatment.
- Paul
I do find QQ confusing. In an ambiguous situation, one needs to give the driver an obvious “Do” option. Otherwise, the driver is left performing a “process of elimination” which may take longer than the driver has available.
Plus, the “Do Not Enter” signage is not clarified by lane. The sign to the right of the tunnel does not clarify and can be misread as a center mounted sign indicating no entry to the correct lanes, thereby discouraging the driver from doing the correct turn.
I’m sure it all complies with the HTA but that doesnt mean it’s the optimal human factors treatment.
- Paul
steveintoronto
Superstar
QQ is a mess for everyone, as I've pointed out many times for cyclists and pedestrians, let alone motorists. God only knows what planners were thinking when they laid it out. Perhaps their degree in Nihilism and Chaos, the way of the future?
GTA
Confused by Queens Quay? You aren't alone. TTC vice-chair wants review of the street
GTA
Confused by Queens Quay? You aren't alone. TTC vice-chair wants review of the street
pstogios
Senior Member
I have said it before and I will say it again.
Painting the ROW will vastly enhance everyone’s awareness that it is a no-go zone for vehicles or pedestrians. It’s easy, it’s cheap, it has been employed elsewhere in the GTA and it’s effective.
Can anyone explain to me why this either hasn’t been considered or if so, been rejected?
Painting the ROW will vastly enhance everyone’s awareness that it is a no-go zone for vehicles or pedestrians. It’s easy, it’s cheap, it has been employed elsewhere in the GTA and it’s effective.
Can anyone explain to me why this either hasn’t been considered or if so, been rejected?
DSC
Superstar
Certainly worth a few cans of paint and, as you say, cheap. Of course, ;people who miss rumble strips, signs and flashing lights will probably ignore or not notice paint but ....
dowlingm
Senior Member
Presumably there is concern that a) it snows and b) when it doesn't snow, there is a lack of urgency to maintain. Crosswalk lines are usually faded to almost nothing before the city renews them, for example.