[W. K. Lis]

TTC Meeting No. 2035
Tuesday, September 24, 2019
1:00 PM

From link.

Presentations/Reports/Other Business

1. Chief Executive Officer’s Report – September 2019 Update (For Information)
2. Approved Minutes of the Advisory Committee on Accessible Transit (ACAT) General Monthly Meeting for June 27 and July 25, 2019 (For Information)
3. Dupont Station Easier Access III – Further Status Update (This report contains advice or communications that are subject to solicitor-client privilege) (For Action)
4. Materials and Procurement Consolidated Warehouse Leasehold Improvements Authorization Amendment (This report is about a proposed or pending land acquisition or disposition of land for municipal or local board purposes) (For Action)
5. Spadina Station Easier Access Phase III – Property Acquisition (This report is about a proposed or pending land acquisition or disposition of land for municipal or local board purposes) (For Action)
6. 1810 Markham Road – Building Updates (For Action)
7. Sheppard West Station Pavement Rehabilitation (For Action)
8. Subway Platform Gap Retrofit Program (For Action)
9. TTC Sick Benefit Association Annual Report (For Information)
10. Appointment of TTC Pension Fund Society Director (For Action)
11. Financial Update for Period Ending July 6, 2019 and Major Projects Update (For Information)
12. PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP 2018 Management Letter Follow-up (For Action)
13. Audit, Risk and Compliance: Progress and Strategies to Address Toronto Transit Commission’s “High Priority” Outstanding Auditor General Recommendations (For Action)
14. Audit, Risk and Compliance: Flood Risk Management (For Action)
15. 2020 Schedule of Meetings (For Action)
16. City Council Transmittal – Executive Committee Item 7.5 Planning Recreation Facilities for the Don Mills Communities (For Action)
17. Notice of Motion – Improving Bus Transit and Traffic Flow on Keele Street (submitted by Commissioner Shelley Carroll, seconded by Commissioner Brad Bradford on behalf of Councillor James Pasternak) (For Action)
18. Revenue Control Strategy – Phase One: Response to the Auditor General Revenue Operations Phase One – Fare Evasion and Fare Inspection Report (For Action)
19. TTC Status Update – Ombudsman Recommendations (For Action)

 

[Coolstar]

He is a bus person and doesn't support streetcars. He is not the only GM who doesn't support streetcars even if they are part of the system they run.

So basically he's the Doug Ford of the TTC.

 

[Neutrino]

With respect to bus garages, it's odd the TTC can't easily procure another one. Given how many car dealerships there are across the city, what's stopping them? Funding? Because if it's not funding, then that's just laziness on their part. Should be easy enough to buy out a car dealership.

 

[Jonny5]

With respect to bus garages, it's odd the TTC can't easily procure another one. Given how many car dealerships there are across the city, what's stopping them? Funding? Because if it's not funding, then that's just laziness on their part. Should be easy enough to buy out a car dealership.

Procure a bus garage? Like, just go out and buy one at "Bus Garage Depot"? Or do you mean convert a car dealership into one? Like you think a bus garage would fit on a car dealership lot? The staff parking would occupy the entire lot of any car dealership without any space left for the actual garage. The McNicoll property is over 600,000 square feet. Nevermind that you can't buy something if someone doesn't want to sell, and why would the car dealership owner want to sell and effectively end his business?

 

[Northern Light]

From the Financial Report going to the upcoming TTC meeting on September 24; second exit design is complete/under final review for Donlands and College.

While design has been initiated for Summerhill, Museum and Dundas West.

Report Below: (relevant material on page 15)

http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2019/September_24/Reports/11_Financial_Update_for_the_Period_Ended_July_6_2019_Major_P.pdf

 

[smallspy]

With respect to bus garages, it's odd the TTC can't easily procure another one. Given how many car dealerships there are across the city, what's stopping them? Funding? Because if it's not funding, then that's just laziness on their part. Should be easy enough to buy out a car dealership.

The property the average car dealership sits on is nowhere near big enough to support a bus garage.

Dan

 

[Richard White]

The property the average car dealership sits on is nowhere near big enough to support a bus garage.

Dan

The only car dealership(s) large enough would be at Morningside and Conlins.

 

[lenaitch]

With respect to bus garages, it's odd the TTC can't easily procure another one. Given how many car dealerships there are across the city, what's stopping them? Funding? Because if it's not funding, then that's just laziness on their part. Should be easy enough to buy out a car dealership.

I can't say I've ever seen a car dealership that had the shop size, overhead clearance (well, some maybe), ingress/egress, possibly floor loading capacity or apron size for a bus garage. Repair facilities is one thing, but you have to have sufficient parking space, large component overhaul space unless they job that out, as well as substantial parts warehousing. I would think if there was a car dealership that wasn't doing well financially it would already be closed, unless the suggestion is to do the typical government thing and throw unrealistic money at one.

 

[drum118]

If systems in Europe can build 2/3 story building above or below ground for bus garages, why can't TTC???

In some places, above ground garages were place underground with development on top of them.

Without paying high prices for existing buildings and land to create the land for a garage, very little exist in land size to build another 1-3 garages in Toronto now.

I saw a new car dealership yesterday for Honda that was 4/5 levels high, and not the first one I have seen in Toronto. Even in the US, they have been buildings these tall buildings with a number of levels for car dealership and they look better than most commercial or residental building of the same height.

In Geneva, I saw a carhouse with trams and buses on the main level that also had bus levels above it as well underground. Parking for cars was underground.

 

[Neutrino]

@Jonny5 that's why I mentioned buying more than one dealer to consolidate the lots. Next time feel free to actually answer the question without snark.

 

[smallspy]

For the record, there are a number of properties that the TTC has earmarked for bus garages over the years. There is a property at Steeles and Pharmacy that is still fallow because of that.

But....if the property isn't sited in a good location for a bus garage, should the TTC still go through with it? It seems that they're still smarting from the decision to build the new Eglinton where they did, with all of the additional deadheading that siting the garage there has cost them in the intervening 17 years. Mount Dennis and even more so with McNicholl endured some headaches at the property acquisition stage because the TTC and the City had to work much harder to get the properties, and then deal with the after-effects of the neighbours prior to construction.

Dan

 

[Steve X]

It might be easier in the future to build garages for electric buses with residential properties on top. At least the fear of diesel tanks blowing up and the smell of exhaust fume is gone.

It's time the TTC change their ways of delivering bus garages. Instead of building huge 250 bus garages and have a hard time getting hold of a piece of land, they could build satellite storage garages and have the heavy maintenance done elsewhere. That way, the overnight noise is minimized at the site. They could add 50-100 storage every couple years instead of waiting for a big bang additional follow by years of argument to fund the next big garage a decade down the road.

 

[rbt]

It might be easier in the future to build garages for electric buses with residential properties on top. At least the fear of diesel tanks blowing up and the smell of exhaust fume is gone.

Certainly eliminates most smells (lubricants would still be used) and morning/evening noise.

That said, living above 100 buses containing 50MWh of lithium battery storage isn't very appealing to me; a garage fire could still get very intense.

They could add 50-100 storage every couple years instead of waiting for a big bang additional follow by years of argument to fund the next big garage a decade down the road.

Small garages without maintenance facilities have their own headaches; the biggest being that about 20% of drivers will finish work at a different garage than they start at as vehicles get rotated through. It's tricky if they're dropped off at end-of-day or picked up at start-of-day (lot of cab trips being paid for; blue-night isn't fiscally efficient for transporting drivers still on the clock); somehow arranging all pickup/drop-offs at mid-day might work but would that increase the number of vehicles unavailable during AM/PM peaks?

 

[smallspy]

It's time the TTC change their ways of delivering bus garages. Instead of building huge 250 bus garages and have a hard time getting hold of a piece of land, they could build satellite storage garages and have the heavy maintenance done elsewhere. That way, the overnight noise is minimized at the site. They could add 50-100 storage every couple years instead of waiting for a big bang additional follow by years of argument to fund the next big garage a decade down the road.

Over 20 years ago, the TTC calculated that there is a flat cost of $3mil a year simply in overheads and staffing to operate a garage - regardless of its size - for one year. (All being equal, that's the equivalent of $4.3mil today.) This is what informed the decision to close two smaller garages and consolidate them in one (Eglinton), and why the minimum garage size is now considered to be 250 buses.

If you operate many smaller garages instead of a couple of big ones, that is an additional cost that the TTC will have to bear and with absolutely no net benefit to the amount of service put on the street. Is that really a wise decision?

For the record, heavy maintenance is already only done at 2 sites, both of which are in the Hillcrest Complex. What is done at each garage is by no means considered "heavy".

Dan

 

[Streety McCarface]

If systems in Europe can build 2/3 story building above or below ground for bus garages, why can't TTC???

In some places, above ground garages were place underground with development on top of them.

Without paying high prices for existing buildings and land to create the land for a garage, very little exist in land size to build another 1-3 garages in Toronto now.

I saw a new car dealership yesterday for Honda that was 4/5 levels high, and not the first one I have seen in Toronto. Even in the US, they have been buildings these tall buildings with a number of levels for car dealership and they look better than most commercial or residental building of the same height.

In Geneva, I saw a carhouse with trams and buses on the main level that also had bus levels above it as well underground. Parking for cars was underground.

Blame parking minimums.