Northern Light
Superstar
A favourite quote of mine; oddly from an NFL coach, a sport in which I take no interest......
“Strive for perfection, but settle for excellence.”
— Don Shula
|
|
|
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
A favourite quote of mine; oddly from an NFL coach, a sport in which I take no interest......
“Strive for perfection, but settle for excellence.”
— Don Shula
TransitBart
Senior Member
It may be easier to be the coach of the Miami Dolphins than to build transit in Toronto.
Coolstar
Senior Member
It's easier to win the lottery, then get struck by lightning after than building transit in Toronto at this point.
H4F33Z
Active Member
Anyone have a general speed for the Bloor-Danforth Subway between broadview and woodbine.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Think that closing parts of the subway for a weekend is a pain. How about for an entire month? That's happening in Boston, with North America's oldest subway.
The Green Line Is Taking A Summer Break
The C and E branches will each close for a month this summer to accelerate track work and intersection upgrades. Will MassDOT give buses the space they need to pick up the slack?
From link.
The good news for them, they have alternate routes available.
The Green Line Is Taking A Summer Break
The C and E branches will each close for a month this summer to accelerate track work and intersection upgrades. Will MassDOT give buses the space they need to pick up the slack?
From link.
The good news for them, they have alternate routes available.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
As in average speed (including stops) or top speeds, because both are vastly different.
H4F33Z
Active Member
Top speeds.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
Practically, I'd assume the top speed is about 65 km/h (given the stretch between Woodbine and Coxwell). Generally, trains probably won't exceed 60 km/h on these short stretches.
Hypothetically, you could probably go 70 miles per hour or more if you wanted to through most sections (not including crossovers, switches, and tail tracks, and assuming TTC trains were built up to spec for that), it's a fairly straight section of track. You just can't stop or slow down for any reason.
Richard White
Senior Member
The T1 (not sure about the TR) trains have a high rate switch in the cab to allow them go around 70 kph I believe but Dan would know more about that than I would.
With the way the system is designed I would not go over 50 kph. It would make stopping at stations difficult and if you have to stop in a hurry it could be dangerous.
I had a train stop dead to avoid a priority one at Bathurst and watched people go flying when the train went into emergency. That was at a normal speed.. I can only imagine how bad it would have been at a high rate of speed.
Steve X
Senior Member
Back in the days without SCS, trains go reach 85-90 km/h eastbound heading into Old Mill. Most of the old Toronto stretch stations aren't spaced wide enough to allow over 50km/h. With wider station spacing, the Crosstown would likely see a much faster top speed around 70-80 km/h.
High rate isn't about top speed but acceleration. One would feel high rate like a fast vs slow elevator. However one wouldn't feel top speed of 50 or 200km/h if it accelerated slowly. The only feedback would be sound from the tracks and tunnel.
It doesn't matter what speed the trains are going in the tunnel. They'll have to apply the brakes accordingly so they are entering slower than a certain speed to be able to stop by the end of the platform.
High rate isn't about top speed but acceleration. One would feel high rate like a fast vs slow elevator. However one wouldn't feel top speed of 50 or 200km/h if it accelerated slowly. The only feedback would be sound from the tracks and tunnel.
It doesn't matter what speed the trains are going in the tunnel. They'll have to apply the brakes accordingly so they are entering slower than a certain speed to be able to stop by the end of the platform.
smallspy
Senior Member
The trains are set up so that they have the power cut-out at 80km/h, and a penalty brake application at 88km/h. On the older equipment especially though, those numbers were a bit loose, and it was well known that certain pieces of equipment were capable of a bit more or less than that. But with the newer equipment, those numbers are pretty firm.
Yes, there is also a high-rate mode that all equipment since the M-class cars have had which will increase the horsepower put out by the traction motors and increase the amount of dynamic braking that they are capable of, but that as a rule hasn't been used since the early 1980s, IIRC. And Steve is correct in that it primarily affects acceleration (and deceleration).
The speed that can be attained is a function of a number of different things. But in the tunnels, the limiting factor is one of two things:the aerodynamic effect of the tunnel itself (frequently referred to as the "piston effect"); and the length between stations, or more precisely in most cases, the lack thereof. Especially on the B-D, there are very seldom any locations where the train is capable of achieving a "balancing speed" - that is, the point at which the power of the traction motors equal to the many varied drag sources on the train, and thus is able to cruise at a constant speed.
Specifically on the section between Danforth and Broadview, the stretch between each station is quite short and so in almost every section there the trains are still accelerating upon arriving at the following station. You can see this by the fact that the first brake markers are almost always located under the platforms, rather than in the tunnel before the station.
There are two places where the trains are capable of higher-than-normal speeds on that stretch, however. The first is westbound from Woodbine to Coxwell - the trains get a bit of a boost as they leave Woodbine as there is a downhill grade immediately west of the platforms. The trains will reach a peak speed about two-thirds of the way to Coxwell before the aerodynamic drag overtakes the forces of gravity and the traction motors, but even so the first braking marker is located about 30 feet east of the platform at Coxwell. The other location is between Donlands and Greenwood, and in both directions. The affect on the trains is very different, however - eastbound the trains accelerate very quickly due to the downhill grade to the Greenwood Yard accesses, but then loose a lot of speed as they climb towards Greenwood. Westbound trains accelerate at a lower rate as they have to climb, but then pick up speed on the downhill into Donlands.
Dan
Yes, there is also a high-rate mode that all equipment since the M-class cars have had which will increase the horsepower put out by the traction motors and increase the amount of dynamic braking that they are capable of, but that as a rule hasn't been used since the early 1980s, IIRC. And Steve is correct in that it primarily affects acceleration (and deceleration).
The speed that can be attained is a function of a number of different things. But in the tunnels, the limiting factor is one of two things:the aerodynamic effect of the tunnel itself (frequently referred to as the "piston effect"); and the length between stations, or more precisely in most cases, the lack thereof. Especially on the B-D, there are very seldom any locations where the train is capable of achieving a "balancing speed" - that is, the point at which the power of the traction motors equal to the many varied drag sources on the train, and thus is able to cruise at a constant speed.
Specifically on the section between Danforth and Broadview, the stretch between each station is quite short and so in almost every section there the trains are still accelerating upon arriving at the following station. You can see this by the fact that the first brake markers are almost always located under the platforms, rather than in the tunnel before the station.
There are two places where the trains are capable of higher-than-normal speeds on that stretch, however. The first is westbound from Woodbine to Coxwell - the trains get a bit of a boost as they leave Woodbine as there is a downhill grade immediately west of the platforms. The trains will reach a peak speed about two-thirds of the way to Coxwell before the aerodynamic drag overtakes the forces of gravity and the traction motors, but even so the first braking marker is located about 30 feet east of the platform at Coxwell. The other location is between Donlands and Greenwood, and in both directions. The affect on the trains is very different, however - eastbound the trains accelerate very quickly due to the downhill grade to the Greenwood Yard accesses, but then loose a lot of speed as they climb towards Greenwood. Westbound trains accelerate at a lower rate as they have to climb, but then pick up speed on the downhill into Donlands.
Dan
Northern Light
Superstar
As a side note to current discussions of speed, when I was a kid, TTC operators often left the train cab door open for young rail fans.
I remember being on what I think was the fastest run I've ever been on, NB on Yonge, on the approach to York Mills (down a very big hill).
The train definitely broke 90km/ph, briefly.
I remember the operator having fun, until he overshot the platform by several meters, with the first and second doors of the 1st car in the tunnel beyond the platform.
It wasn't too long after that the TTC changed the signals on that approach (previously all could go solid green), and coded them w/the white light below, and defaulting to reds and yellows with speed limit signs posted in the tunnel.
Such kills joys! LOL
I remember being on what I think was the fastest run I've ever been on, NB on Yonge, on the approach to York Mills (down a very big hill).
The train definitely broke 90km/ph, briefly.
I remember the operator having fun, until he overshot the platform by several meters, with the first and second doors of the 1st car in the tunnel beyond the platform.
It wasn't too long after that the TTC changed the signals on that approach (previously all could go solid green), and coded them w/the white light below, and defaulting to reds and yellows with speed limit signs posted in the tunnel.
Such kills joys! LOL
Richard White
Senior Member
I would very much be interested in drag racing subway cars. Just clear all the signals and put the proverbial peddle to the floor.
First one from Vaughan to Finch without stopping wins an all expenses paid vacation.
Northern Light
Superstar