W. K. Lis
Superstar
The buses have to be fuelled up each day. All vehicles (buses and streetcars) also have to be cleaned out each day.
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- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
The buses have to be fuelled up each day. All vehicles (buses and streetcars) also have to be cleaned out each day.
drum118
Superstar
Man oh man are you so wet behind the ear and no clue how contract are written or how systems work. Based on your argument about walking around and checking things out, you need to add airplanes to your list along with a number of other modes.
Bottom line, your suggestion will never get off the ground. There are a few systems that have part time drivers as that is the only way they can get a full time position with the system.
Trying to compare school bus drivers to TTC or any other system is a joke, as they only want part time jobs and are not great drivers. My niece trains these bus drivers and fails 60% of them not once or twice that they go else where. She now drives GO DD buses and prefer it over training drivers.
NOTE: Can't speak for all transit drivers, they do walk around a bus before taking it into service that I have seen.
DSC
Superstar
... and a check by a bus driver at layovers - though essential - is NOT the same thing as a mechanical and safety check by a qualified mechanic. A vehicle used to transport the public has much higher 'maintenance' requirements than a private car.
littlewill1166
Active Member
So do VIA Rail's trains, the trains that layover overnight in Sarnia and Kingston get cleaned, fueled, inspected, and maintained during the day at the Toronto Maintenance Center, the same thing with GO Transit. I never said that the busses shouldn't be cleaned, just that the TTC should have kept its older busses for longer, and stored them outside of a depot in various parts of the network so that they could be used if required. The busses would be operated until they aren't needed or run low on fuel, be parked where convenient, and be taken to a bus division whenever it's convenient.
Same as above didn't say that they wouldn't be checked, just checked at less busy times. The depots are very busy at night but less so during the day. Having extra busses that are on their way out stored in various parts of the network increases redundancy and reduces deadhead time.
It probably won't given how slowly the TTC moves on things, and because there will likely be self-driving buses within the next decade. But its common practice in other cities like Hong Kong, Singapore, in fact, the TTC proposed doing something similar to what I'm proposing with the new streetcars at the CNE loop because they expected more to be delivered before Leslie Barns was completed.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
Last I checked, a train is not a bus, and every day it's in the Toronto yards.
It seems like an overt waste of fuel to me.
Magic.
There are plenty of reasons that did not occur. Also, streetcars are also not buses. They don't require this thing called diesel fuel and their mechanical systems wear differently.
The Exhibition Loop also is completely fenced off, has 24 hr video monitoring, and a supervisor stand.
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littlewill1166
Active Member
I know... Can't wait till the TTC gets them.
The TTC will start piloting a self-driving minibus this September.
Regarding your other points, the TTC is moving towards a fully electric fleet alleviating the need for diesel. Furthermore, Greyhound operates its busses in a similar way to VIA/GO so I find it hard to believe that a similar operating structure couldn't be applied at the TTC.
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AlbertHWagstaff
Senior Member
And just how are these battery buses going to be recharged if you just park them all over the place? They still need to be cleaned... have you seen how dirty buses are inside that have been out all day? Even if you just had an overnight parking garage, all the buses would need to be fueled, cleaned and washed before being driven there, and then the people that drove them there have to get back to the main garage, and then do it again. What a waste of time and resources. What happens when the bus in this off-site parking lot doesn't start in the morning or has a defect? In the garage, a technician or mechanic can take a quick look and/or the driver can take another bus. And how are the drivers who go to these offsite parking lots supposed to know what bus is theirs? The buses in the garages are assigned to specific runs by the dispatcher so that they leave the garage in an organized sequence, with some assigned to rush hour only runs so they return to the garage for MTO inspections or interior washing. Who is going to do that at some remote lot? And where is the farebox vault going to come from? Those are all securely stored at the divisions. And if you eliminate those but have fare machines, who is going to collect the cash from those fare machines? How would you know if the drivers even showed up on time to start their shift at these remote locations? Would they phone in and say "I'm here!"? There is a lot more going on logistically with the drivers and the buses than just having drivers show up at some unsecured parking lot to drive a bus off to a route, especially when operating a system with 2,000 buses in the fleet.
littlewill1166
Active Member
I'm just saying that the TTC should park older run as directed busses in existing stations and bus loops. Just like how the TTC parks some subway trains in the tail tracks of terminal stations overnight. They'll still get serviced at existing divisions. Just at less busy times. What I'm proposing is meant to reduce deadhead time, and increase redundancy in the system, during service disruptions. It's not meant to be used for baseline service. It's currently possible now, Hong Kong and Singapore are examples. However it will be made easier with the introduction of electric busses and cashless payment.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
So you propose hiring an additional servicing crew at all divisions?
littlewill1166
Active Member
It could be done through a combination modified hours, overtime, or by growing the spare board at select divisions.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
Again, talk to ATU 113 and see how that goes.
smallspy
Senior Member
First off....
The TTC does have a fleet of older buses that they are currently keeping in storage. They are even cycled into and out of service from time to time. There are about 40 of them right now.
But what you are suggesting is going to require additional drivers - not just buses - and your idea of using part-time drivers simply won't fly. The TTC could hire more drivers - they've done blitzes in the past when programs such as the RGS have been implemented - but even then, it will be at least a couple of months before the first of those drivers will be able to see revenue service assuming that they are hired tomorrow. And that's assuming that the TTC is even able to ramp up their hiring program that quickly - as it is right now, they can barely hire enough people to cover their retirements and departures.
As for storing the buses in locations overnight that aren't the garages - that's not a brilliant idea, either. Not just fueling and cleaning, but the buses also need to have fluids replaced/topped up, and some of those fluids need to be done in areas with containment/catch pads. And how about fareboxes - those need to be collected and stored, too, and can't just be left out in the vehicles.
And maintenance? As it is right now, the TTC is having trouble maintaining the fleet of buses right now just because there are too many of them at each division. The garages are generally built to handle a fleet of ~275 vehicles, but several of them are currently storing over 300. This means that buses can't get cycled and inspected as often as they should, and sometimes maintenance tasks need to be delayed as other issues are dealt with. Even from a space standpoint, having that many additional buses around can simply make it difficult to maneuver around the facility, and has increased the number of bus-to-bus incidents (which in return, increases the amount of work that needs to be done to the fleet, etc.).
No one is suggesting for a second that the TTC shouldn't or won't run more service. As good as the service is (on paper) today, I think that's one thing that everyone can agree on. But it needs to be done in a smart and rational manner.
Dan
DSC
Superstar
Luxembourg is to become the first country to offer a free public transport system, as the government tries to reduce particularly dense car traffic.
Some cities have taken similar partial measures but the transport ministry said it was the only time such a decision had encompassed an entire country.
Public transport will be free from Saturday in a move that will affect approximately 40% of households and save each one about €100 per year. The measure is part of a wider plan to reduce congestion.
.....
Luxembourg City, the capital, where a tramway has been under construction for several years, is notoriously bad for traffic jams. The first section of the tramway has been operational since the end of 2017, but work will continue for several years to link the southern outskirts of the city to the north, where the airport is located.
The transport minister, François Bausch, said: “Systematic and continuous investment is a sine qua non-essential condition for promoting the attractiveness of public transport.”
Sales from the existing €2 tickets amount to €41m a year, which the authorities said represented just 8% of the annual budget of €500m. This will now be met by the Treasury.
The exception to the free-for-all public transport system will be first-class travel on trains and certain night bus services.
See: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/28/luxembourg-public-transport-free-nationwide-congestion
Some cities have taken similar partial measures but the transport ministry said it was the only time such a decision had encompassed an entire country.
Public transport will be free from Saturday in a move that will affect approximately 40% of households and save each one about €100 per year. The measure is part of a wider plan to reduce congestion.
.....
Luxembourg City, the capital, where a tramway has been under construction for several years, is notoriously bad for traffic jams. The first section of the tramway has been operational since the end of 2017, but work will continue for several years to link the southern outskirts of the city to the north, where the airport is located.
The transport minister, François Bausch, said: “Systematic and continuous investment is a sine qua non-essential condition for promoting the attractiveness of public transport.”
Sales from the existing €2 tickets amount to €41m a year, which the authorities said represented just 8% of the annual budget of €500m. This will now be met by the Treasury.
The exception to the free-for-all public transport system will be first-class travel on trains and certain night bus services.
See: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/28/luxembourg-public-transport-free-nationwide-congestion
cplchanb
Senior Member
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Maybe having the TTC free on weekends and holidays would be a good test. The TTC already has the highest non-rush hour use , except for New York City, in North America. Would be even higher if it wasn't for all these weekend subway closures and streetcar replacements with buses.
Maybe they'll should wait until there is less closures.
Maybe they'll should wait until there is less closures.