[Northern Light]

Was scrolling around on google maps, and I noticed a bunch of parked buses along with some other random stuff in a field next to Mt Dennis Garage:
View attachment 260353
Does the TTC own this property? If so, maybe they could move the sound barrier wall a bit over, pave over the field to add more bus capacity. Might help alleviate the TTC bus garage shortage situation.

Based on this photo, showing lot lines, which I took from TOMaps...........the TTC would appear to be the owner of this lot.

The lot line does not follow the sound barrier, which you can see in the photo below:

Upon further investigation............ The TTC/City expropriated this land in 2004, as per this report:

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2007/cc/bgrd/cc7.6.pdf

 

[JSF-1]

It might also be possible to add these pipe things like at Birchmount and Eglinton garages which I assume are for refueling? (experts here, correct me if that's not the case)

Nah those are "UWE" Heating Systems. Basically they hook up to the bus and pump warm liquid through them to keep the buses warm in the winter so they can start up after sitting in the cold all night. IIRC the results were "meh" at best, and there were problems with fluid leaking and such. The TTC bought the UWE systems to be a cost saving measure, so instead of having to build a large garage facility to both maintain and store buses, they would only need buildings for maintenance and offices while buses could be stored outside. This didn't pan out and it seems the TTC has just gone back to full size garage buildings for both maintenance and storage as seen with Mount Dennis and the new McNicoll Garages. Comstock and Birchmount are the only garages to have them, the former being designed with them in mind and the latter being added on so as to not have to invest money in expanding the garage building itself. I recall once seeing a report by the TTC examining the complete enclosure of Comstock garage and the removal of the UWE system but nothing seems to have come of that. However since the TTC isn't moving all that fast on that front I guess the UWE system works "good enough".

 

[Richard White]

Nah those are "UWE" Heating Systems. Basically they hook up to the bus and pump warm liquid through them to keep the buses warm in the winter so they can start up after sitting in the cold all night. IIRC the results were "meh" at best, and there were problems with fluid leaking and such. The TTC bought the UWE systems to be a cost saving measure, so instead of having to build a large garage facility to both maintain and store buses, they would only need buildings for maintenance and offices while buses could be stored outside. This didn't pan out and it seems the TTC has just gone back to full size garage buildings for both maintenance and storage as seen with Mount Dennis and the new McNicoll Garages. Comstock and Birchmount are the only garages to have them, the former being designed with them in mind and the latter being added on so as to not have to invest money in expanding the garage building itself.

My father was an operator Jan 4th 2019 at both Comstock and Birchmount. He hated them because as I recall on a few occasions they would fail or people would forget to hook the buses up resulting in backups in the morning trying to send out buses.

They were designed as was stated to keep buses ready for the cold winter mornings but they were headaches. If I am not mistaken the one at Comstock actually stopped working at one point.

 

[drum118]

It is also why other systems moved away from the UWE to inside storage buildings. TTC is building inside storage only these days.

It cost $$ to build enclose garages and to convert an UWE to indoors, something TTC is short on. At the same time, you need to relocate buses to other garages to do the conversion and that doesn't happen overnight.

 

[Steve X]

The report is still hosted on ttc.ca: http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com.../2006/May_17_2006/Other/UWE_Status_Update.jsp

 

[Steve X]

Was scrolling around on google maps, and I noticed a bunch of parked buses along with some other random stuff in a field next to Mt Dennis Garage:
View attachment 260353
Does the TTC own this property? If so, maybe they could move the sound barrier wall a bit over, pave over the field to add more bus capacity. Might help alleviate the TTC bus garage shortage situation. There's probably enough room to park 70+ or maybe even 100+ buses depending how the buses are parked.

Let's say you lived at one of those houses. I don't think you would want buses to be roaming right next to your backyard even with the sound barrier. I pretty sure that's why the buffer strip is there along with the parking lot. All the bus parking don't face the residential side.

Although effects are made to minimized the sound, I'm pretty sure it's still a pretty bad place to live if you want to keep your windows opened at night. Bus maintenance and the UPX/GO bell whistling would keep almost anyone up.

 

[Richard White]

Let's say you lived at one of those houses. I don't think you would want buses to be roaming right next to your backyard even with the sound barrier. I pretty sure that's why the buffer strip is there along with the parking lot. All the bus parking don't face the residential side.

Although effects are made to minimized the sound, I'm pretty sure it's still a pretty bad place to live if you want to keep your windows opened at night. Bus maintenance and the UPX/GO bell whistling would keep almost anyone up.

No worse than what these fine folks on Autumn Ave experience. The Stouffville Line is about 20 metres from their window.

 

[Richard White]

Although effects are made to minimized the sound, I'm pretty sure it's still a pretty bad place to live if you want to keep your windows opened at night

Not just noise but diesel exhaust. My grandmother lives behind a towing yard on Kingston Road in Pickering and even with the windows closed the smells seep in.

We are fully expecting the house to be written off if a fire starts because of the proximity to all the vehicles.

 

[ARG1]

https://www.ontario.ca/page/transit-oriented-communities

The Province of Ontario just released a website detailing their plans for transit oriented development (or transit oriented communities as they're calling it) around the 4 new subway lines, something Doug Ford hinted at a few weeks ago.

 

[lenaitch]

No worse than what these fine folks on Autumn Ave experience. The Stouffville Line is about 20 metres from their window.

View attachment 260448

Which was there first.

 

[sche]

Thanks so much to everyone for all the insight, wow!

Based on this photo, showing lot lines, which I took from TOMaps...........the TTC would appear to be the owner of this lot.

The lot line does not follow the sound barrier, which you can see in the photo below:

View attachment 260360

Upon further investigation............ The TTC/City expropriated this land in 2004, as per this report:

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2007/cc/bgrd/cc7.6.pdf

Thanks for the info!

Nah those are "UWE" Heating Systems. Basically they hook up to the bus and pump warm liquid through them to keep the buses warm in the winter so they can start up after sitting in the cold all night. IIRC the results were "meh" at best, and there were problems with fluid leaking and such. The TTC bought the UWE systems to be a cost saving measure, so instead of having to build a large garage facility to both maintain and store buses, they would only need buildings for maintenance and offices while buses could be stored outside. This didn't pan out and it seems the TTC has just gone back to full size garage buildings for both maintenance and storage as seen with Mount Dennis and the new McNicoll Garages. Comstock and Birchmount are the only garages to have them, the former being designed with them in mind and the latter being added on so as to not have to invest money in expanding the garage building itself. I recall once seeing a report by the TTC examining the complete enclosure of Comstock garage and the removal of the UWE system but nothing seems to have come of that. However since the TTC isn't moving all that fast on that front I guess the UWE system works "good enough".

My father was an operator Jan 4th 2019 at both Comstock and Birchmount. He hated them because as I recall on a few occasions they would fail or people would forget to hook the buses up resulting in backups in the morning trying to send out buses.

They were designed as was stated to keep buses ready for the cold winter mornings but they were headaches. If I am not mistaken the one at Comstock actually stopped working at one point.

Interesting. Looks like these UWE things are kind of bad, I had never heard of them before. I guess it would still be possible to move the employee parking a bit over and maybe extend the garage building to house a few extra buses indoors. Still seems like an easier way to expand bus garage capacity without buying up another property, especially since large industrial plots aren't super common these days in the 416.

Let's say you lived at one of those houses. I don't think you would want buses to be roaming right next to your backyard even with the sound barrier. I pretty sure that's why the buffer strip is there along with the parking lot. All the bus parking don't face the residential side.

Although effects are made to minimized the sound, I'm pretty sure it's still a pretty bad place to live if you want to keep your windows opened at night. Bus maintenance and the UPX/GO bell whistling would keep almost anyone up.

Living there must suck, definitely. At Birchmount there is no buffer and there isn't even a sound barrier wall on one side, only a row of trees. The buffer area is like 60m though, I would think reducing it to 30m and planting a mini forest might actually provide a better buffer (after the trees have grown, of course).

Also, with all the winter and UWE issues people are talking about, why does TTC just park lots of buses outside at Arrow Rd garage? Do they move them somewhere indoors for winter? Or do they just deal with buses that don't start?

 

[robmausser]

Which was there first.

1970s builder/realter: "Trains? Oh? The train tracks... yeah, I mean, of course don't worry about that! Trains are dead. Cars are the future. Heck, in 30 years we will all have flying self driving computer cars. So this is a good investment. In 10 years they will be ripping those tracks out"

 

[Steve X]

Also, with all the winter and UWE issues people are talking about, why does TTC just park lots of buses outside at Arrow Rd garage? Do they move them somewhere indoors for winter? Or do they just deal with buses that don't start?

Cause they ran out of indoor space. They would idle them on cold nights. A waste of gas to keep them ready for the next morning. Many garages park them outdoors as well. Arrow Rd, Mount Dennis and Wilson (when they had them) all park their artics outdoors.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Cause they ran out of indoor space. They would idle them on cold nights. A waste of gas to keep them ready for the next morning. Many garages park them outdoors as well. Arrow Rd, Mount Dennis and Wilson (when they had them) all park their artics outdoors.

Couldn't they be building more bus garage spaces (like a roof and walls) before winter arrives?

 

[drum118]

Couldn't they be building more bus garage spaces (like a roof and walls) before winter arrives?

Geeeeee.......................No.

Like anything that gets built in this city, must go through the normal building process starting with a site plan and building plan presented to the building department to get approval and a permit to build; then tender it; get the Commission to approve the contract. Tendering could happen during the process to obtain the permit.

With the opening of the Crosstown, TTC was expecting to reduce the size of the bus fleet and freeing up space at garages, but its the opposite way now. TTC needs to add buses to meet ridership growth and this was before COVID-19 mess. It needs to add 2 more garages.