gabe
Senior Member
Well It's lot different today. It's a combination of poor parenting and schools are now too afraid to discipline youngsters for fear of retaliation from the woke crowd.
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- Thread starter drum118
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Well It's lot different today. It's a combination of poor parenting and schools are now too afraid to discipline youngsters for fear of retaliation from the woke crowd.
Northern Light
Superstar
Evidence please. Anecdotes and assumptions don't make for good public policy.
Violent crime as rate has been in steady decline for a generation or more; on its face, this does not support your argument. But I'm happy to entertain a different view if you can show what facts support it.
Sunnyside
Active Member
A better anecdote might be that society is more uneasy now than in my living memory. I’m quite young, but there is a heightened sense of restlessness, fear, and unease in everyone. For many, including me, it probably feels like a new world (post-COVID). And with that, social problems bubbling under the surface are rearing their head.
I can’t help but think that many people ask themselves “what do I have to lose now?” And the answer isn’t much, especially if they get away with it.
I can’t help but think that many people ask themselves “what do I have to lose now?” And the answer isn’t much, especially if they get away with it.
Deadpool X
Senior Member
One of the reasons why some people drive to downtown while we blame them for creating congestion.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Another seemingly insane attacker. I’m beginning to see the value in Minority Report. As badly as that ended.
Undead
Senior Member
I think it's pretty well documented that everyone got angrier and less trustful of others/institutions during covid. Looks like taking away people's livelihoods and social lives, locking them up for no reason at home and the media pumping them full of fear every day was a bad idea. Who would have thought.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I think I’ll just walk. I have a meeting near the Westin Harbour Castle on Thursday. If the snow doesn’t show it’s a 45 min walk from my house. Less on bikeshare. I’ll take my chances on foot or cycle before I chance the nuthouse and squat that is the TTC.
TTCdinosaur
Active Member
The leading indicators were clear, but like most anglo bureaucracies, we prefer for wait for lagging indicators (I.e., people stabbed or killed) so we have enough data to think about maybe, possibly, doing something.
My choice to bike in warm weather and drive and Uber in winters looks better every day. This system is an embarrassment.
Your plate of exceptionally slow streetcars and detours now comes with a side of violence.
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T3G
Senior Member
I wasn't convinced by the hysteria in 2022 - the data didn't seem to support it - but I'm convinced now. We're literally at the point of an attack a day, far far and away worse than the worst 2022 had to offer.
Has someone opened a portal to the Upside Down underneath Toronto?
Has someone opened a portal to the Upside Down underneath Toronto?
TTCdinosaur
Active Member
T3G
Senior Member
Sorry, but a few high profile violent incidents does not a trend make. Toronto has always had a few of these going on.
The TPS' own data does not seem to suggest the violent crime rate for 2022 was anything but average for the last few years. It's nice of you to sit here and rub it in our faces that you were right, but at no point during the calendar year of 2022 did the data support your assertions, so some humbleness would not go amiss.
Northern Light
Superstar
Perhaps. I don't know how we would measure such a thing properly, but I'd caution that there have been bad recessions before, major layoffs before, housing bubbles before, and far worse levels of crime. I don't mean the preceding in the context of some great sweep of history, but rather entirely within the time frame of 1989-present, or about the last 35 years.
So I would approach that with some caution.
I think its fair to say that there is rising homelessness, and serious affordability challenges for sub-middle income groups in society; and to a lesser degree (more annoyance as oppose to serious challenge) for the middle income groups as well.
That and a pandemic having just passed (more or less) certainly could leave some fatigued/wary/worried; but I don't get the sense of this being unprecedented writ large; and certainly don't see factual evidence for that.
There is evidence that the TTC has had a material upturn in serious incidents (though perhaps a bit less than one might expect); running about double in the second half of 2022 over the comparable period a year prior.
Far too much, to be sure; but perhaps less than one might think from the media.
Again, I'm not sold on this.
1) The majority of incidents which we've heard of lately appear to involve people who are genuinely mentally ill; not people rationally weighing out the virtue of pushing someone on the tracks or stabbing a stranger.
2) The two high profile swarming incidents involving teens don't seem particularly rational either. These are not armed robberies or car thefts in search of sudden riches; nor so far as we know are they impulsive acts of revenge.
As for getting away with it, so far the entire group of teens who were involved in murdering the homeless man have been arrested, which happened literally with an hour of the incident for many or all of them, most, last I heard, remain in custody.
The latest incident, on the TTC at Kennedy, has resulted in 4 arrests thus far, and I expect more are coming.
I don't see that as the basis for rationally believing that one won't get caught, or has nothing to lose.
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We frankly need to see more evidence on this latter pair of incidents before drawing conclusions.
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To return to the question of mental illness, we don't need more evidence to know that there are too many people out in the community who are clearly in need of psychiatric care. That care, for some, indeed likely many, must take the form of institutional care (in patient) for a period of time; for a few, perhaps for the rest of their days.
We need more inpatient mental heathcare beds, both long and short term, probably measuring to several hundred for the GTA alone; and evidence suggests we've seen similar problems in other Canadian communities (notably in the lower mainland of BC); where just that decision is now being taken by their new Premier.
Ours needs to likewise step up on this file.
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Deadpool X
Senior Member
The other option was let people free and kill a few hundred thousand more. I think a few deaths is still a better outcome.
nfitz
Superstar
That's a heck of an assumption. The homeless and mentally ill on the streets was an rising issue before Covid.
To suggest it's bounceback from lockdown is a big leap. It could just as much be that the overloaded healthcare system hasn't been able to cope with such individuals - who are less likely to wait 12-hours in emergency!
And yet 2/3 of the recent murders that we are discussing here, have been on the sidewalk, not on transit.
TTCdinosaur
Active Member
Some more interesting data: https://www.blogto.com/city/2023/01/reasons-people-toronto-prefer-driving-public-transit/
