[W. K. Lis]

Is there a reason trains have not turned back at Broadview or Chester during the last two "personal injuries"?

Both times it has been St George to Woodbine despite the incidents occurring well clear of Broadview or Woodbine.

View attachment 458574

There is money for shuttle buses, but not platform screen doors.

 

[BB ON]

I don't think they'd ever turn back trains at Chester, for the reason that there's no surface infrastructure there to take on that passenger load.

Broadview is also kind of awkward, because the pocket track is much closer to Chester. I also think there's some kind of limitation in that interlocking that prevents moves from WB chester to EB broadview, so trains can only use the WB platform at Broadview to turn back east. This creates big delays because one train at a time must proceed into Broadview, then wrong-way back into the pocket track at restricted speed, then back onto the EB mainline. The next train has to wait at Chester the whole time. Despite it physically being possible, Broadview's not really set up to be a terminal -- the move reverse into the pocket track is a call-on signal vs. a normal yellow/yellow, and the operators have to stop and push a lever at the signal to proceed -- more delay. There also isn't an exit signal reverse at Broadview WB like at other crossovers.

At Woodbine, trains can empty, crossover past the station, and turn around very quickly. It was designed from the outset to be a terminal.

 

[T3G]

There is money for shuttle buses, but not platform screen doors.

The shuttle buses that run during an unplanned emergency would have been running anyway, they are pulled from routes and standbys.

It doesn't matter, anyway, because even if the TTC was swimming in cash, you couldn't install PSDs while the trains on the line are incapable of driving themselves, and the new trains are not going to be prepared overnight, either, even if the contract was signed right this second. Also, the whole system wouldn't be able to be retrofitted all at once.

Populist soundbites get people riled up, but reality is very rarely so simple.

 

[DSC]

The shuttle buses that run during an unplanned emergency would have been running anyway, they are pulled from routes and standbys.

It doesn't matter, anyway, because even if the TTC was swimming in cash, you couldn't install PSDs while the trains on the line are incapable of driving themselves, and the new trains are not going to be prepared overnight, either, even if the contract was signed right this second. Also, the whole system wouldn't be able to be retrofitted all at once.

Populist soundbites get people riled up, but reality is very rarely so simple.

Yes, shuttles for UNPLANNED needs come from regular routes & spares. We are, mainly, talking here of a 'planned and semi-permanent' diversion of 501 where the TTC can (and will need to) assign vehicles and drivers to it. Platform screen doors are clearly 'desirable' but are one of many things that the TTC/City could spend $$ on. Personally, I would put more service (and service that was actually actively managed) above it.

 

[T3G]

Yes, shuttles for UNPLANNED needs come from regular routes & spares. We are, mainly, talking here of a 'planned and semi-permanent' diversion of 501 where the TTC can (and will need to) assign vehicles and drivers to it.

Wasn't referring to that, I was responding to Walter's post which was referring to the unplanned service outage this morning on the 2.

The 501 boondoggle is a separate issue. The fact that it's happening is truly disgraceful, but it has nothing to do with what Walter wrote.

 

[drum118]

Happen to be working on removing and fixing tags on my site and came upond the trackwork for York St done in 2013.

The question is, what is the plan for that new southbound track that has to go in between Queen and Adelaide as well traffic after the detour ends?? I have lost track of this project.

I would say its in the best interest of TTC to keep traffic and the track after the detour ends as it allow the 501 to detour if something is taking place at City Hall or in that area like New Year Event or when the Leaf win the cup.

2013

 

[DSC]

Happen to be working on removing and fixing tags on my site and came upond the trackwork for York St done in 2013.

The question is, what is the plan for that new southbound track that has to go in between Queen and Adelaide as well traffic after the detour ends?? I have lost track of this project.

I would say its in the best interest of TTC to keep traffic and the track after the detour ends as it allow the 501 to detour if something is taking place at City Hall or in that area like New Year Event or when the Leaf win the cup.

2013

The TTC will certainly retain the York St southbound track as they paid for the new track from York to Spadina - just installed by the Ciy and TTC. ML are paying for the new track on York (and still apparently installing it) and ML were supposed to pay for and install the track on Adelaide from York to Victoria. ML were originally going to build this stretch of track but now TTC will do it and be paid by ML.

 

[nfitz]

ML were originally going to build this stretch of track but now TTC will do it and be paid by ML.

If Metrolinx were building it, we'd be wondering what would open first - the rebuilt Queen Street or the construction detour!

 

[smallspy]

I don't think they'd ever turn back trains at Chester, for the reason that there's no surface infrastructure there to take on that passenger load.

Broadview is also kind of awkward, because the pocket track is much closer to Chester. I also think there's some kind of limitation in that interlocking that prevents moves from WB chester to EB broadview, so trains can only use the WB platform at Broadview to turn back east. This creates big delays because one train at a time must proceed into Broadview, then wrong-way back into the pocket track at restricted speed, then back onto the EB mainline. The next train has to wait at Chester the whole time. Despite it physically being possible, Broadview's not really set up to be a terminal -- the move reverse into the pocket track is a call-on signal vs. a normal yellow/yellow, and the operators have to stop and push a lever at the signal to proceed -- more delay. There also isn't an exit signal reverse at Broadview WB like at other crossovers.

At Woodbine, trains can empty, crossover past the station, and turn around very quickly. It was designed from the outset to be a terminal.

Trains have gotten turned back at Chester all the time. But they don't get offloaded there. They would generally offload at Pape, where there's a proper bus facility (plus lots of routes with which people can take, rather than just the shuttle.

They have turned trains back at Broadview in the past, but as you note that involves a much longer stretch of single track and the trip-arms tied down, so headways get affected much more negatively.

But what has changed in the past year or two is that the crossovers into the Chester Pocket track have been changed to "jump frogs" from the traditional style. While this means that trains on the mainline can now go through at higher speeds and with less vibration/noise/wheel impact, trains entering and exiting the pocket have to do so at a much lower speed. I wonder if for some reason the TTC has gotten cold feet about its use.

Dan

 

[drum118]

I guess something not ready or fail

Today's celebration of the opening of the new elevator at Lansdowne Station has been postponed.

The event will be rescheduled and media will be advised.

 

[BB ON]

But what has changed in the past year or two is that the crossovers into the Chester Pocket track have been changed to "jump frogs" from the traditional style. While this means that trains on the mainline can now go through at higher speeds and with less vibration/noise/wheel impact, trains entering and exiting the pocket have to do so at a much lower speed. I wonder if for some reason the TTC has gotten cold feet about its use.

Dan

I think that has to do with geometry of the diverging path (it is still a small radius) or signal rules (the entering train is restricted by the approach signal or stop signal at the end of the pocket.)

 

[smallspy]

I think that has to do with geometry of the diverging path (it is still a small radius) or signal rules (the entering train is restricted by the approach signal or stop signal at the end of the pocket.)

Nope. Geometry is the same, and the signals weren't touched.

But there is a 5 (or maybe 7) km/h permanent speed limit on all trains entering and exiting the pocket.

Dan

 

[Richard White]

Nope. Geometry is the same, and the signals weren't touched.

But there is a 5 (or maybe 7) km/h permanent speed limit on all trains entering and exiting the pocket.

Dan

That would explain the aversion to turning back at Chester. At those speeds, it would severely f*** things up.

 

[smallspy]

That would explain the aversion to turning back at Chester. At those speeds, it would severely f*** things up.

But it wouldn't. I mean, it didn't when they did the first couple of instances of turnbacks there after the new crossovers were put in, plus they still have to run the odd train through the pocket every week or so. Or for overnight storage. Or for work equipment.

Like I said before, I wonder if something happened that resulted in the TTC getting cold feet about its use.

Dan

 

[drum118]

Sole source​

$40-million contract seen as reducing shuttle bus use on Queen streetcar line​