[T3G]

The same will happen to the New York subway as it migrates to CBTC. Once the system is near-completely migrated, you won't be seeing heritage trains running there either. Not that it's a bad thing: the agency's job is to run a public service.

Of course it's a bad thing. The heritage trains attract loads of crowds every year and bring smiles to many a face, not to mention it promotes the NY Transit Museum which is one of the largest and most important institutions of its kind. It's all bunk anyway, if running heritage trains falling outside of their mandate was what was stopping them from doing so, they would've stopped doing so ages ago.

As far as I am aware, There is nothing precluding the old trains from being equipped with CBTC, I could be wrong about this but I seek to remember reading a few years back the MTA intended to do just that. Same as there is nothing (except for the requirement to actually do something) stopping the TTC from installing pantographs on the old streetcars. Many transit agencies in Europe have large and well maintained old historical fleets that are well loved and a part of the urban fabric, to suggest it's ok for us to stop using them because it's outside of their core mandate of running base service is a philistine cop out. It's not in their core mandate to have open houses or participate in community events like parades but yet they do and earn themselves lots of community goodwill for doing so every year.

 

[MovingBlock]

Of course it's a bad thing. The heritage trains attract loads of crowds every year and bring smiles to many a face, not to mention it promotes the NY Transit Museum which is one of the largest and most important institutions of its kind. It's all bunk anyway, if running heritage trains falling outside of their mandate was what was stopping them from doing so, they would've stopped doing so ages ago.

As far as I am aware, There is nothing precluding the old trains from being equipped with CBTC, I could be wrong about this but I seek to remember reading a few years back the MTA intended to do just that. Same as there is nothing (except for the requirement to actually do something) stopping the TTC from installing pantographs on the old streetcars. Many transit agencies in Europe have large and well maintained old historical fleets that are well loved and a part of the urban fabric, to suggest it's ok for us to stop using them because it's outside of their core mandate of running base service is a philistine cop out. It's not in their core mandate to have open houses or participate in community events like parades but yet they do and earn themselves lots of community goodwill for doing so every year.

The TTC doesn't currently use the Witt, PCC or CLRV for revenue service. Outfitting them with pantographs is at the bottom of their spending priorities, especially given the current funding situation. I don't want funds that could be used to improve service being used to refit vehicles that will never see revenue service again.

The MTA will not equip heritage equipment for CBTC because it's prohibitively expensive. CBTC requires significantly more train-based equipment for the Automatic Train Protection System, which requires space that is not present on trains designed >40 years ago. It's the reason you won't find the TOMC on the Flushing Line, or heritage equipment on the London Underground except for the Bakerloo, Piccadilly & Amersham branch of the Metropolitan line.

 

[T3G]

I am not saying that the TTC is supposed to use their current crop of funding on retrofitting the heritage cars with pantographs instead of improving service. Ideally, what would happen is that their heritage assets (the few that exist) would be spun off into their own non profit corporation that can focus on just looking after historic affairs, free from the daily nonsense of the TTC. However, I also have difficulty accepting that the situation has changed significantly recently. The TTC has claimed to be short of cash for decades now, through much better economic times than these. What was their excuse then? They weren't going out of their way to make the service the best it could possibly be back then, either.

No, the city and agency just doesn't care about history. It's as simple as that. If they did, they would find money to make this happen. They don't, so they won't. That's all it comes down to. There's much poorer European cities that manage to run a transit service (much better than ours, mind you) and also maintain a sizable heritage fleet.

As for not wanting money to be spent on vehicles that will never see revenue service again... really? Do you also object to the driver salaries and costs of energy required for the two Flexity cars which participated in the Easter parade this year? How much fares did the TTC lose today by not running service on the eastern part of the 501 for 6 hours? What about all the overtime and lost productivity every year at Doors Open and the United Way open houses, having to pay people to stand around and give demonstrations and tours or block off access to restricted areas, rather than doing the job that they were hired to do?

 

[ARG1]

I am not saying that the TTC is supposed to use their current crop of funding on retrofitting the heritage cars with pantographs instead of improving service. Ideally, what would happen is that their heritage assets (the few that exist) would be spun off into their own non profit corporation that can focus on just looking after historic affairs, free from the daily nonsense of the TTC. However, I also have difficulty accepting that the situation has changed significantly recently. The TTC has claimed to be short of cash for decades now, through much better economic times than these. What was their excuse then? They weren't going out of their way to make the service the best it could possibly be back then, either.

No, the city and agency just doesn't care about history. It's as simple as that. If they did, they would find money to make this happen. They don't, so they won't. That's all it comes down to. There's much poorer European cities that manage to run a transit service (much better than ours, mind you) and also maintain a sizable heritage fleet.

As for not wanting money to be spent on vehicles that will never see revenue service again... really? Do you also object to the driver salaries and costs of energy required for the two Flexity cars which participated in the Easter parade this year? How much fares did the TTC lose today by not running service on the eastern part of the 501 for 6 hours? What about all the overtime and lost productivity every year at Doors Open and the United Way open houses, having to pay people to stand around and give demonstrations and tours or block off access to restricted areas, rather than doing the job that they were hired to do?

To quote a smart guy, the poor person says he doesn't have enough money, the rich person asks where he can get the money.

 

[nfitz]

For the Easter Parade, the 501 streetcar is terminating at Kingston Road.

From link.

If I was the TTC CEO, I would have had the 501 go up Kingston Road to terminate at Bingham Loop. So then some users could use Kingston Road as an alternate route.

Why? Kingston Road is a parking lot during the parade. That would just mess up the rest of the 501 route.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Why? Kingston Road is a parking lot during the parade. That would just mess up the rest of the 501 route.

Didn't help when TPS issued this (from link)...

Unit: Parking Enforcement​

Published: Thursday, April 6, 2023, 3:19 PM​

​

The Toronto Police Service Parking Enforcement Unit will not be enforcing the following on-street parking bylaws during the upcoming holidays:​

- Rush-Hour Routes
- Posted signs indicating Monday to Friday regulations
​

On:​

- Good Friday on Friday, April 7, 2023
- Easter Sunday on Sunday April 9, 2023
- Easter Monday on Monday, April 10, 2023
​

All other areas and parking offences will continue to be enforced.​

 

[drum118]

Why? Kingston Road is a parking lot during the parade. That would just mess up the rest of the 501 route.

If anyone like I do attend various events in the Beach(es) area will knows very well how traffic is a major issue for Kingston Rd when Queen is close east of Woodbine as well north-south streets. Getting those n-s south buses through the area can be a nightmare at time with huge gaps and long line ups.

Can't recall when the Kingston Rd Loop was rebuilt to handle the short turning there for these events and it can be pack full of LRV's to deal with the closures and crowds these days.

As you noted, using Kingston road for service will make a huge mess for the 501 from end to end.

 

[nfitz]

Didn't help when TPS issued this (from link)...

Unit: Parking Enforcement​

Published: Thursday, April 6, 2023, 3:19 PM​

​

The Toronto Police Service Parking Enforcement Unit will not be enforcing the following on-street parking bylaws during the upcoming holidays:​

- Rush-Hour Routes​

- Posted signs indicating Monday to Friday regulations​

​

On:​

- Good Friday on Friday, April 7, 2023​

- Easter Sunday on Sunday April 9, 2023​

- Easter Monday on Monday, April 10, 2023​

​

All other areas and parking offences will continue to be enforced.​

How does not enforcing Monday to Friday regulations and rush-hour parking impact the Easter parade - which is on a Sunday?

 

[turbanplanner]

How does not enforcing Monday to Friday regulations and rush-hour parking impact the Easter parade - which is on a Sunday?

People here are so mad if ANYTHING that could be seen as pro car happen, even if it's a totally common sense move.

I feel like it's silly to enforce Monday to Friday rules on a holiday when traffic is low and people aren't working.

 

[Steve X]

People here are so mad if ANYTHING that could be seen as pro car happen, even if it's a totally common sense move.

I feel like it's silly to enforce Monday to Friday rules on a holiday when traffic is low and people aren't working.

And stores aren't suppose to be open meaning no reason for people to pay for parking.

 

[Northern Light]

Rogers has acquired the Canadian assets of BAI (which has the cell service contract for TTC); deal to close w/in 2 weeks.

Rogers to invest in bringing 5G service to the entire network. Not yet clear how access to the network will work for Rogers competitors.

TTC cellular black hole could end as Rogers to acquire TTC wireless network

The deal could resolve the impasse that has left public transit riders in Canada’s largest city unable to use their cellphones on the tunnel system.

www.thestar.com

Press Release here:

Rogers Steps Up to Bring 5G Full Services to TTC Subway, Including 911 Calling - About Rogers

Acquisition of BAI Canada and significant investment by Rogers will bring reliable 5G service to all stations and tunnels across Toronto’s subway system TORONTO, April 10, 2023 — Rogers Communications Inc. today announced a plan to bring full 5G connectivity services to Toronto’s entire subway...

about.rogers.com

From the above:

 

[Amare]

Rogers has acquired the Canadian assets of BAI (which has the cell service contract for TTC); deal to close w/in 2 weeks.

Rogers to invest in bringing 5G service to the entire network. Not yet clear how access to the network will work for Rogers competitors.

TTC cellular black hole could end as Rogers to acquire TTC wireless network

The deal could resolve the impasse that has left public transit riders in Canada’s largest city unable to use their cellphones on the tunnel system.

www.thestar.com

Press Release here:

Rogers Steps Up to Bring 5G Full Services to TTC Subway, Including 911 Calling - About Rogers

Acquisition of BAI Canada and significant investment by Rogers will bring reliable 5G service to all stations and tunnels across Toronto’s subway system TORONTO, April 10, 2023 — Rogers Communications Inc. today announced a plan to bring full 5G connectivity services to Toronto’s entire subway...

about.rogers.com

From the above:

View attachment 468211
View attachment 468212

The only good thing coming out of this for sure is the 911 access.

Asides from that i'm sure Rogers is looking forward to screwing it's current customers by using this as an excuse to jack up rates to an even crazier excessive level and will justify it by saying "they are making investments to our network". They'll also likely screw customers from other carriers by blocking Bell and Telus customers out from accessing unless the other 2 carriers pay them a nice hefty amount of case, which they probably wont do.

 

[beatle04]

I’m not trying to derail this discussion, but I can’t think of anywhere more appropriate to post this.

I’m seriously wondering what the TTC intends to do with the ”Lite-Brite” maps on the TRs in the long-term. They can get away with it for now with Lines 5/6 (maybe even program the Eglinton/Cedarvale/Kennedy and Finch West station lights to flash). But for the Scarborough/Yonge North extensions, they don’t have the lights. I really wish they’d just replace them with R211/Mark V-style LCD-displays.

I really hope the TTC doesn’t just cheap out, and turn them off altogether.

The plan AFAIK is to turn them off. In fact some of the TRs already have new maps with solid white circles instead (the light can still pass through but it doesn't look great).

 

[turbanplanner]

The only good thing coming out of this for sure is the 911 access.

Asides from that i'm sure Rogers is looking forward to screwing it's current customers by using this as an excuse to jack up rates to an even crazier excessive level and will justify it by saying "they are making investments to our network". They'll also likely screw customers from other carriers by blocking Bell and Telus customers out from accessing unless the other 2 carriers pay them a nice hefty amount of case, which they probably wont do.

Couldn't phones use freedoms signal to dial 911? I'm also worried rogers is going to scrap wifi now.

 

[Northern Light]

Couldn't phones use freedoms signal to dial 911? I'm also worried rogers is going to scrap wifi now.

Yes, any carrier's phone can dial 911 where available now.

But 911 is not available in all stations or tunnels now, only the downtown U, the TYSSE and St. George to Yonge on Line 2, the rest of the system has reception (were underground)

So the proposal here is extend access to 911 and the entire 5G cell service to the entire system, all tunnels, all stations.