[AlvinofDiaspar]

How so?

Try finding a unstained, less than dubious seat can be a real challenge - if you think you can deep clean that fabric well without spending inordinate amount of time doing it, good luck.

AoD

 

[T3G]

Try finding a unstained, less than dubious seat can be a real challenge - if you think you can deep clean that fabric well without spending inordinate amount of time doing it, good luck.

AoD

Is there any vehicle in the city in which this isn't a problem? Other than new equipment for the first week or so of service.

And seeing a clean seat insert doesn't mean you can't pick up bedbugs, either ...

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Is there any vehicle in the city in which this isn't a problem? Other than new equipment for the first week or so of service.

And seeing a clean seat insert doesn't mean you can't pick up bedbugs, either ...

Vinyl seating (I know, someone is going to mention scratching as an issue, which it is without a doubt) - non-absorbent, wipe clean/sanitize - I am fairly certain - based on the smell I have encountered on some trains - that riders have relieved themselves on the seat and it wasn't dealt with. This kind of absorbent seating have no place in any transit setting.

AoD

 

[Northern Light]

Try finding a unstained, less than dubious seat can be a real challenge - if you think you can deep clean that fabric well without spending inordinate amount of time doing it, good luck.

AoD

We've had these trains a fair time now, i didn't think it was that much of an issue for the first many years. I suspect a cut back in cleaning and probably in fabric replacement.

I'm not suggesting we couldn't pick a better one, but I will take fabric over (hard) plastic 100% of the time. I'd really like to see the pads brought back.

I recognize the arguments, but I also feel that if something looks like its cheap/meant for abuse, more people will treat it that way.

I'd like to see GO-style seating on the subway (high back, padded, fabric, and arm rests (which admittedly would serve a certain defensive design purpose)

Edit to Add:

The above change would likely result in fewer total seats. Particularly if we went to a mostly transverse layout, which I prefer.

 

[jje1000]

I thought they held up fairly well - though the choice of seating fabric is coming back to haunt us.

As to the new trainset - I hope they adopt some way of dealing with door blockers.

AoD

Personally I think they don't look worse for wear, but are more clumsy ergonomic- and design-wise than most contemporary subway train sets and, would benefit from a design refresh maybe in the next decade or so.

That being said, I would definitely put a station recladding of King to Eglinton stations as being more publicly impactful for the public face of the TTC. Those botched 80s-era reclads have aged so poorly IMO.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

We've had these trains a fair time now, i didn't think it was that much of an issue for the first many years. I suspect a cut back in cleaning and probably in fabric replacement.

I'm not suggesting we couldn't pick a better one, but I will take fabric over (hard) plastic 100% of the time. I'd really like to see the pads brought back.

I recognize the arguments, but I also feel that if something looks like its cheap/meant for abuse, more people will treat it that way.

I'd like to see GO-style seating on the subway (high back, padded, fabric, and arm rests (which admittedly would serve a certain defensive design purpose)

Edit to Add:

The above change would likely result in fewer total seats. Particularly if we went to a mostly transverse layout, which I prefer.

GO seating is comfortable but suffers from a similar problem - food/drinks spillage and people who put up their feet, and lately an influx of riders who just does not give a sh*t. Umpteen public announcements condemning the practice of putting up the feet had made no difference. Vinyl (H6 style) offers a reasonable compromise in comfort and cleanability between fabric and hard plastic to me.

Moving to longitudinal seating is a no-brainer for a system that is perpetually crowded (i.e. Line 1) - but I suspect some killjoys are going to make a lot of noise around any attempt to go that route.

AoD

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Personally I think they don't look worse for wear, but are more clumsy ergonomic- and design-wise than most contemporary subway train sets and, would benefit from a design refresh maybe in the next decade or so.

That being said, I would definitely put a station recladding of King to Eglinton stations as being more publicly impactful for the public face of the TTC. Those botched 80s-era reclads have aged so poorly IMO.

Yeah, the ergonomics are a little weird - and the post-purchase addition of overhead handlebars at the ends of the trains is a tad claustrophobic and contributed a bit to the blockage issue.

I would definitely put cleaning (vehicles and stations) as the highest priority though.

AoD

 

[jje1000]

That being said, I would definitely put a station recladding of King to Eglinton stations as being more publicly impactful for the public face of the TTC. Those botched 80s-era reclads have aged so poorly IMO.

Oh, and don't forget about fixing the ceiling slat issue, I swear I get secondhand embarrassment whenever I have to bring someone visiting through stations full of missing ceiling slats.

 

[81-717]

Yuck, the first design looked so much better.

Agree, though the updated one looks somewhat like a 81-775.

Edit: more like a 81-765 actually.

I've never understood the hate on the TR's. Granted, I only ride the subway in Toronto about once a year, but always love my rides in them. Riding whatever's on the Bloor line these days just feels old, clunky, and claustrophobic by comparison, and matches my memories of subway rides of yore.

I don't hate them (or the T1s) per se (aside from the fact that they replaced the Hawkers), but I hate the idea of either ending up getting preserved, adding insult to injury on top of replacing the Hawkers which weren't saved and unlikely to ever be.
TLDR: compared to the Hawkers, the T1s and TRs are totally bland and not special to be worthy of saving.

I thought they held up fairly well - though the choice of seating fabric is coming back to haunt us.

As to the new trainset - I hope they adopt some way of dealing with door blockers.

AoD

Right now the oldest TRs are only 13–14, the youngest a trivial 7, it'd be "questionable" for them to start showing their age so early on. Mind you, it's not uncommon for people to think the T1s haven't started showing their age either, even if it's a completely false impression.

 

[dowlingm]

Yuck, the first design looked so much better.

the change I notice is an operator side window.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Oh, and don't forget about fixing the ceiling slat issue, I swear I get secondhand embarrassment whenever I have to bring someone visiting through stations full of missing ceiling slats.

I wish they would move to the type of semi-open ceiling slats that is easier to maintain and looks visually (not to mention physically) cleaner.

AoD

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Right now the oldest TRs are only 13, the youngest a trivial 7, it'd be "questionable" for them to start showing their age so early. Mind you, it's not uncommon for people to think the T1s haven't started showing their age either, even if it's a completely false impression.

I thought the T1s - barring the seat issue - also aged quite well; remember the ceiling of the H6s having drillholes for AC (or whatever it is) repairs?

One thing that almost none of the trains have resolved - inaudible emergency real-life announcements.

AoD

 

[crs1026]

Call me crazy but I actually prefer standing on subway rides, especially for rides of only a few stops. Too many years of commuting at rush hour, I guess - seats seldom available, just got used to standing.
So I don't mind the TR seating, but I find the standee handrails incredibly awkward and unhelpful. And why the HVAC boxes have to be slung from the ceiling?
My other complaint would be the strangely retro analog station maps - surely those are much more problemmatic to maintain than a video screen?

If the intent is simply to be retro, then I would definitely want the synthesised throb of a G class air compressor, and for the lights to blink off whenever going over a turnout. But seriously, surely LED screens would be more functional, and up to date......

- Paul

 

[81-717]

I thought the T1s - barring the seat issue - also aged quite well; remember the ceiling of the H6s having drillholes for AC (or whatever it is) repairs?

One thing that almost none of the trains have resolved - inaudible emergency real-life announcements.

AoD

Unfortunately I don't remember. You mean like holes in the ceiling patched up with small pieces of plastic matching the ceiling color?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Call me crazy but I actually prefer standing on subway rides, especially for rides of only a few stops. Too many years of commuting at rush hour, I guess - seats seldom available, just got used to standing.
So I don't mind the TR seating, but I find the standee handrails incredibly awkward and unhelpful. And why the HVAC boxes have to be slung from the ceiling?
My other complaint would be the strangely retro analog station maps - surely those are much more problemmatic to maintain than a video screen?

If the intent is simply to be retro, then I would definitely want the synthesised throb of a G class air compressor, and for the lights to blink off whenever going over a turnout. But seriously, surely LED screens would be more functional, and up to date......

- Paul

I prefer standing for short trips myself - but if I am starting from the termini I'd definitely want a seat. re: info screens - it can't beat the uselessness of that tiny LCD display.

Unfortunately I don't remember. You mean like holes in the ceiling patched up with small pieces of plastic matching the ceiling color?

Yup! Round pieces of melamine or whatever it is covering the holes.

AoD