[DSCToronto]

There were also two motions, one that would adopt the Metrolinx policy, and another that would shorten the ban from Dec 15 to March 15 (instead of Nov 15 to April 15). Both failed, the first 4-6 and the second on a tie 5-5.

Chair Myers also remarked "From my understanding we still haven't decided who is going to be enforcing the ban"

At the October meeting Cllr Saxe -- an e-bike user -- pointed out (in opposition to the policy) that the purported elevated risk in the winter due to salt, moisture, and cold, doesn't suddenly disappear on April 16th when the ban gets lifted because who knows what condition the battery was exposed to during the winter.

Goofy policy with no reality of it being enforced imo

Council (and others) passing laws (or by-laws) and then not having them enforced is all too common. Allows people to say 'see we dealt with the problem".

 

[Admiral Beez]

If you dont want to see ebikes on the transit system straight up. ban ebikes entirely.

Isn’t that what we just did? Asking overworked staff to check the certifications of ebike batteries is unworkable. And besides, you can buy fraudulent batteries on Aliexpress with false ETL/CSA/UL marks. In short, if the battery comes from China, it cannot be trusted. Full stop.

 

[evandyk]

There was a guy with a huge bike on a Line 2 train at 5:20 today. The train was full enough that people couldn't get on it, and he was taking up the space of 5-6 people.

And if nobody is enforcing the rush hour rule, when it actually matters, what are the chances anyone will enforce this.

 

[nfitz]

What's the chance of one or more of the bidders suing TTC to force a contract with TTC as some kind of compensation

It's always a possibility on any contract. Though the TTC would have had to screwed something up to end up in that hole (I'm not sure where STM went wrong).

I think the outcome of a challenge wouldn't be two companies being contracted or working together. It would either be the award being changed, or the entire RFP cancelled - and perhaps rebid. Again, I don't know what STM was thinking.

 

[Steve X]

Isn’t that what we just did? Asking overworked staff to check the certifications of ebike batteries is unworkable. And besides, you can buy fraudulent batteries on Aliexpress with false ETL/CSA/UL marks. In short, if the battery comes from China, it cannot be trusted. Full stop.

You can probably etch your own marking on it. It's not difficult to fake something like this.

I think the bylaw would help protect the TTC from lawsuits when things go wrong more than a deterrent to careless people.

 

[Coolibop]

At the October meeting Cllr Saxe -- an e-bike user -- pointed out (in opposition to the policy) that the purported elevated risk in the winter due to salt, moisture, and cold, doesn't suddenly disappear on April 16th when the ban gets lifted because who knows what condition the battery was exposed to during the winter.

Goofy policy...

Agreed.

Lithium plating and condensation increases the risk of failure at some future point as also agreed to by the fire chief in the same meeting... The risk doesn't magically end April 16th. In fact, I could argue short circuiting is increased in the summer when temps are higher and usage higher.

I can bike all winter beginning the damage to the battery, and have it fail mid summer on the subway. This makes no sense.

 

[Richard White]

There was a guy with a huge bike on a Line 2 train at 5:20 today. The train was full enough that people couldn't get on it, and he was taking up the space of 5-6 people.

And if nobody is enforcing the rush hour rule, when it actually matters, what are the chances anyone will enforce this.

I've seen this before. I once saw 3 people with full sized e-bikes get on and sit right in front of the door in rush hour.

I'm not sure where they were going but seriously...

I'm sorry that they don't have another way to get around but there needs to be a limit at some point

 

[nfitz]

I've seen this before. I once saw 3 people with full sized e-bikes get on and sit right in front of the door in rush hour.

I'm not sure where they were going but seriously...

I'm sorry that they don't have another way to get around but there needs to be a limit at some point

How do you ban it though? As it was pointed out quite clearly in the meeting that there hasn't been a single enforcement of ANY TTC bylaws other than fares, in at least 5 years.

 

[T3G]

Goofy policy with no reality of it being enforced imo

Sounds like Toronto in a nutshell.

Agreed.

Lithium plating and condensation increases the risk of failure at some future point as also agreed to by the fire chief in the same meeting... The risk doesn't magically end April 16th. In fact, I could argue short circuiting is increased in the summer when temps are higher and usage higher.

I can bike all winter beginning the damage to the battery, and have it fail mid summer on the subway. This makes no sense.

In fairness, who's to say that this is where it will all end? This city's war on micromobility is unending.

However, starting in the spring, police will work with City of Toronto officials to take it one step further.

“We’ll look very closely … working with the City of Toronto, our partners there, to follow through on those vehicles that have been identified by the City as being banned, and whether it’s an e-bike or an e-scooter or any of the many different variations you’ll see, we will be there to apply both the Highway Traffic Act and the City bylaw,” Moyer said.

Toronto police cracking down on unsafe e-bike operators

The Toronto Police Service says it is cracking down on unsafe operators of e-bikes, e-scooters and other small electric vehicles.

toronto.citynews.ca

It is also interesting to note that the ban on e-bikes is happening due to a few high profile fires. But e-buses have also had a few high profile fires (not here, but globally), and yet we're going right ahead and buying hundreds of them. If kneejerk hysteria is the criteria by which we set policy, we should be rolling back the e-bus program, too. How dare the TTC put me in danger on my commute!

 

[turini2]

TTC approves sweeping ban of e-bikes, e-scooters on public transit system

The ban on e-bikes and e-scooters during the winter months is effective immediately.

www.thestar.com

Paywall free: https://archive.is/XdBGx

If there's any risk of this on a crowded rush hour train, it's not worth it. After this fire in November 2021, they've been banned from the Tube since Dec 2021 - many other metros/subways around the world have also implemented this policy.
It would be silly to have staff checking the "quality of the batteries" - and all that would do would cause a black market in the right certification stickers!

It is also interesting to note that the ban on e-bikes is happening due to a few high profile fires. But e-buses have also had a few high profile fires (not here, but globally), and yet we're going right ahead and buying hundreds of them. If kneejerk hysteria is the criteria by which we set policy, we should be rolling back the e-bus program, too. How dare the TTC put me in danger on my commute!

E-buses don't usually get stuck in single bore tunnels, and they tend to be built by more reputable companies. Some of the e-scooters/e-bikes on the other hand...

 

[T3G]

E-buses don't usually get stuck in single bore tunnels, and they tend to be built by more reputable companies. Some of the e-scooters/e-bikes on the other hand...

I'm sure the buses that burned weren't purchased from Alibaba either...

 

[Coolibop]

. After this fire in November 2021, they've been banned from the Tube since Dec 2021 - many other metros/subways around the world have also implemented this policy..

I thought Ebikes are still allowed?

What other transit agencies? I search and find quite the opposite... It seems the ttc is one of the first...

 

[Admiral Beez]

And if nobody is enforcing the rush hour rule, when it actually matters, what are the chances anyone will enforce this.

Same with the insane, vagrants and junkies on the TTC. Perhaps the risk of ebike fires will push for greater enforcement of all TTC Bylaws across the system.

I'm sure the buses that burned weren't purchased from Alibaba either...

Well, you can if you want…and for you, special price.

China Bus Transport 10m Ev City Bus 21-40 Seater Electric City Sightseeing Bus - Buy Chinese Small Electric Bus Sightseeing Car City Mini Passenger Bus bus Used 23 Seater Electric Bus Bus Price Passenger Buses City Bus For Sale city Passenger Bus Use

China Bus Transport 10m Ev City Bus 21-40 Seater Electric City Sightseeing Bus - Buy Chinese Small Electric Bus Sightseeing Car City Mini Passenger Bus bus Used 23 Seater Electric Bus Bus Price Passenger Buses City Bus For Sale city Passenger Bus Used Bus Used Electric Bus Sightseeing Bus Car...

www.alibaba.com

But I don’t recommend it.

But seriously, Canada makes its own ev buses, using batteries made in North America and Europe. https://novabus.com/en/ We don’t need crap from China.

 

[reinventingthewheel]

I thought Ebikes are still allowed?

What other transit agencies? I search and find quite the opposite... It seems the ttc is one of the first...

Try searching with criteria of publications earlier than 2024. Otherwise everything on Google points to TTC and ML.

A cursory search tells me there are bans from 10+ UK-based transit operators, several in Spain, and PATH service in New York. I’m sure there are more if we searched with some language agnostic mechanism.

 

[adys123]

Isn’t that what we just did? Asking overworked staff to check the certifications of ebike batteries is unworkable. And besides, you can buy fraudulent batteries on Aliexpress with false ETL/CSA/UL marks. In short, if the battery comes from China, it cannot be trusted. Full stop.

Same with the insane, vagrants and junkies on the TTC. Perhaps the risk of ebike fires will push for greater enforcement of all TTC Bylaws across the system.

Well, you can if you want…and for you, special price.

China Bus Transport 10m Ev City Bus 21-40 Seater Electric City Sightseeing Bus - Buy Chinese Small Electric Bus Sightseeing Car City Mini Passenger Bus bus Used 23 Seater Electric Bus Bus Price Passenger Buses City Bus For Sale city Passenger Bus Use

China Bus Transport 10m Ev City Bus 21-40 Seater Electric City Sightseeing Bus - Buy Chinese Small Electric Bus Sightseeing Car City Mini Passenger Bus bus Used 23 Seater Electric Bus Bus Price Passenger Buses City Bus For Sale city Passenger Bus Used Bus Used Electric Bus Sightseeing Bus Car...

www.alibaba.com

But I don’t recommend it.

But seriously, Canada makes its own ev buses, using batteries made in North America and Europe. https://novabus.com/en/ We don’t need crap from China.

Admiral, these comments are extremely prejudiced and I advise that you tone it down. I remind you that most of the goods you purchase do originate in China, including a large majority of safe lithium ion batteries. We can discuss battery manufacturing and quality control without discriminating.