[Jonny5]

There's an old saying: the people who care about class are the ones who don't have it.
If you need to care what type of public transit vehicle transports you for your highly government subsidised trip, well... using the word "déclassé" is quite precious.

I only need to care that I get where I need to go reliably, though for reference I do enjoy when the 503 bus blows past a 504 streetcar downtown leaving it several stops behind the bus, but my commute is too short there to really know conditions for a long ride, and of course I know how streetcars are handicapped by the TTC's dumb rules.

However, I would say in recent years my quality of ride has deteriorated in "class" terms mostly from the other passengers, and the streetcar riders are the worst. They are far more self-absorbed, lazy, rude and straight up gross than the bus riders who seem to understand they're all in it together and manage to maintain a sense of decorum.

If anything, streetcar riders are "déclassé."

 

[CapitalSeven]

My takeaway from the last several posts is that the things wrong with Toronto's streetcar network aren't about streetcars, they are about Torontonians, from TTC management down to the drivers. [ EDIT - meant to say down to the riders.] Those are all cultural problems that can be fixed. The streetcar network is not worth keeping unless they are fixed.

 

[W. K. Lis]

My takeaway from the last several posts is that the things wrong with Toronto's streetcar network aren't about streetcars, they are about Torontonians, from TTC management down to the drivers. Those are all cultural problems that can be fixed. The streetcar network is not worth keeping unless they are fixed.

Not just TTC management.

Don't forget that the TTC is way underfunded. There are no funds for proper track switches, forcing the streetcars to slow down and stop at each track switch. Something that the trams in Europe don't have a problem with.

The Transportation Services have a bias for the automobile. No true transit priority because the single-occupant motorists would get upset. No traffic signals at the subway stations, so streetcars and buses could enter the roadway. Can't put traffic signals there because they would be too close to other traffic signals. (Ignore the traffic signals between The Bay and the Eaton Centre, being close to the ones near Yonge & Queen). Remember this...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1605331887962353665

 

[felix123]

If anything, streetcar riders are "déclassé."

That reminds me of an old saying: the people who care about class are the ones who don't have it

 

[felix123]

Not just TTC management.

Don't forget that the TTC is way underfunded. There are no funds for proper track switches, forcing the streetcars to slow down and stop at each track switch. Something that the trams in Europe don't have a problem with.

The Transportation Services have a bias for the automobile. No true transit priority because the single-occupant motorists would get upset. No traffic signals at the subway stations, so streetcars and buses could enter the roadway. Can't put traffic signals there because they would be too close to other traffic signals. (Ignore the traffic signals between The Bay and the Eaton Centre, being close to the ones near Yonge & Queen). Remember this...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1605331887962353665

I completely agree. The King St Pilot was a good start towards improvements but it shouldn't have also been the end. This is a city with a minuscule subway/rapid transit network relative to its pre-eminent economic significance within the country. It's a slog to get anywhere in Toronto unless the start and end points are both on a subway line.

There's the GO network but improvements are plodding along slowly with many setbacks and very few planned infill stations within the city. There also won't be much interlining, even where it would make sense to have it.

The streetcar network is an obvious answer to unlocking faster, better transit here. It seems like we're just waiting for Toronto to finally accept it.

 

[DSC]

Not just TTC management.

Don't forget that the TTC is way underfunded. There are no funds for proper track switches, forcing the streetcars to slow down and stop at each track switch. Something that the trams in Europe don't have a problem with.

The Transportation Services have a bias for the automobile. No true transit priority because the single-occupant motorists would get upset. No traffic signals at the subway stations, so streetcars and buses could enter the roadway. Can't put traffic signals there because they would be too close to other traffic signals. (Ignore the traffic signals between The Bay and the Eaton Centre, being close to the ones near Yonge & Queen). Remember this...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1605331887962353665

Don't forget that the TTC was about to expand the Broadview loop but Cllr Fletcher said no and she may well be to blame for no lights at that intersection. It IS ridiculous that the streetcars get stuck there and often only get through because a TTC bus driver stops and lets them through.!

 

[nfitz]

Don't forget that the TTC was about to expand the Broadview loop but Cllr Fletcher said no and she may well be to blame for no lights at that intersection. It IS ridiculous that the streetcars get stuck there and often only get through because a TTC bus driver stops and lets them through.!

Councillor Fletcher said the change had come from TTC, as they'd decided the loop changes weren't necessary.

I've no idea about the traffic lights though - but I thought that the city Transportation people weren't keen to put lights in.

 

[DSC]

Councillor Fletcher said the change had come from TTC, as they'd decided the loop changes weren't necessary.

I've no idea about the traffic lights though - but I thought that the city Transportation people weren't keen to put lights in.

That is not what I heard. Apparently (I heard) the merchants liked the Green P parking and Fletcher nixed the loop expansion. Without a larger loop, streetcars will still need to wait on Broadview. Maybe @smallspy has inside info!

 

[W. K. Lis]

That is not what I heard. Apparently (I heard) the merchants liked the Green P parking and Fletcher nixed the loop expansion. Without a larger loop, streetcars will still need to wait on Broadview. Maybe @smallspy has inside info!

How many people in an automobile? The driver? Anyone else? There are seats for five. What is the average? Been mentioned between 1.3 to 1.6 per automobile. Compare with a streetcar...

TTC LFLRV: 70 seated; 130 maximum

From link.


Who do the councillor or city council listen to? The passengers on the streetcar or the driver of the personal private pickup truck in the Green P parking spot?

 

[nfitz]

That is not what I heard. Apparently (I heard) the merchants liked the Green P parking and Fletcher nixed the loop expansion. Without a larger loop, streetcars will still need to wait on Broadview. Maybe @smallspy has inside info!

Which really doesn't make sense, as there's not much business there that relies on Green P parking there, other than Shoppers. There's an unusually large number of green P spots in that area. How many did they need? 5? 6?

Which isn't to say that I know that Fowler wasn't involved. But she's not normally the pro-Weston capitalist. I'm only saying what I heard from her. I can't vouch for it's accuracy.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I'd prefer a bus! The driver is 100% isolated on the streetcar so a lot more wacky things happen. Bus bunching is bad but the streetcar lines are much worse, and less reliable due to breakdowns or blockages. I find they're often more filthy inside as well

Coming soon are new bus interior designs where the driver will be more protected from unruly passengers. Expect to see a left hand entry door for the driver to avoid troublemakers.

Fare dispute? Let the fare inspectors handle it.

 

[smallspy]

Councillor Fletcher said the change had come from TTC, as they'd decided the loop changes weren't necessary.

Which is a bit of a funny claim, considering that they were about a week away from starting construction on the project when it got shelved.

I've no idea about the traffic lights though - but I thought that the city Transportation people weren't keen to put lights in

The objection to the lights were almost certainly from City Traffic Services. They try to avoid putting lights in closer than about 125 or 150meters from existing ones.

Dan

 

[jmi22]

Which is a bit of a funny claim, considering that they were about a week away from starting construction on the project when it got shelved.


The objection to the lights were almost certainly from City Traffic Services. They try to avoid putting lights in closer than about 125 or 150meters from existing ones.

Dan

As much as we like to pin the cities never ending issues on explicitly conservative suburban councillors, the real crisis is the 'progressive' core councilors doing anything and everything for their relatively small population of sfh multi car owning families.

 

[DSC]

This July notice is still on TTC website (501 page) after 5 weeks!

 

[drum118]

Construction related service changes to begin Sunday

August 30, 2023

Beginning Sun., Sept. 3, regular bus and streetcar service will resume at Main Street Station following completion of critical repairs to the bus and streetcar loop. 506 Carlton streetcars will return to the station, while boarding for bus and Wheel-Trans services resume in the station.

With the resumption of 506 Carlton streetcars to Main Street Station, 506C (Victoria Park -Castle Frank Station) replacement buses will be removed.

Several other construction projects in the City will impact TTC bus and streetcar service. The TTC is working hard to ensure that customers have as many options as possible to get to and from their destinations.

St Clair Avenue West

As part of a modernization of TTC streetcar infrastructure, overhead power upgrades will be implemented across the 512 St Clair route. Work will be coordinated with construction inside St Clair West station, track and concrete repairs at various locations along the corridor, and with major infrastructure works by Metrolinx, City of Toronto, and Toronto Water planned in the area.

Starting Sun., Sept. 3, until summer 2024:

• 512 St Clair streetcars will be replaced with buses. Buses will arrive every few minutes during peak periods, serving curbside stops. At St Clair West Station, buses will serve temporary stops on St Clair Ave. W., outside the station entrances. At St Clair Station, buses will board at the upper-level streetcar loop.

• 33 Forest Hill buses will board on the south side of St Clair Ave. W., outside St Clair West Station.

• 90 Vaughan buses will divert both ways to Bathurst Station, via Vaughan Rd. and Bathurst St. Northbound buses will serve the St Clair Ave. W. and Bathurst St. intersection directly, while southbound buses will bypass the intersection via Vaughan Rd.

• 126 Christie buses will board on the north side of St Clair Ave. W., outside St Clair West Station.

Ontario Line construction on De Grassi Street bridge

Between Sun., Sept. 3 and Sun., Oct. 8, several service changes will be made to the 501 Queen, 503 Kingston Road, and 505 Dundas at various times due to Ontario Line construction on the De Grassi Street bridge.

• Sun., Sept. 3 – Fri., Sept. 22, 501 Queen streetcar service will be replaced by 505 Dundas streetcars on Queen Street East from Broadview Ave to Neville Park Loop.

• Fri., Sept. 22 – Sun., Oct. 8, a new 501D Queen bus service will operate between Neville Park Loop and Church St.

• Sat., Sept. 23 – early 2024, 505 Dundas streetcars will divert both ways via Broadview Ave., Gerrard St. E., and Coxwell Ave., ending at Kingston-Queen Loop.

• Fri., Sept. 29 – Mon., Oct. 2, 501D Queen / 301 Queen Night Bus, 72A Pape and 503 Kingston Rd. buses will divert both ways via Broadview Ave., Dundas St. E., Carlaw Ave., and Queen St. E.

• Mon., Oct. 2 – Sun., Oct. 8, 501D Queen bus service will return to operating between Neville Park Loop and Church St. 72A Pape and 503 Kingston Rd. buses will return to operating on Queen St. E., between Broadview and Carlaw avenues.

King-Queen-Queensway-Roncesvalles

Resumption of streetcar service to Long Branch has been deferred, as work continues to complete major infrastructure upgrades in the King St. W., Queen St. W., The Queensway, and Roncesvalles Ave. (KQQR) intersection area.

The TTC had expected to restore streetcar service along The Queensway, west of Roncesvalles Ave., on Sun., Sept. 3. However, further time is required to complete the installation of poles and overhead cables, and to conduct testing and commissioning of the new infrastructure. (Not Surprised)

Until work is completed later this fall:

• 501L Queen replacement buses will continue to operate between Long Branch and Dufferin St.

• 501A Queen streetcars will now operate between Roncesvalles Ave. and McCaul St.

• Additional 504 King streetcars will operate between Roncesvalles Ave. and Parliament St. during the morning and afternoon peak periods.

Full details of the service adjustments coming into effect this Sunday are available at https://www.ttc.ca/service-advisories/Service-Changes.

The TTC is committed to keeping customers informed about work and events that affect service and about alternate routes. For the most up-to-date information, follow @TTCNotices on Twitter or sign up for e-Alerts.