News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 02, 2020
A Message to Our Readers
 11K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
EarthCam Time-Lapse Documents Rafael Viñoly-Designed New Stanford Hospital Construction
 43K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
Resort Town
 6.6K     0 
nfitz said:
Even if it costs more than it brings in?

This starts to turn into British-style idiocy, where you enforce petty laws at the sake of common sense ... and leads to disasters like the photo ID health cards, where the auditor determined that the cost of running the photo ID program instead of the old lifetime cards was more than it was costing to treat people who were abusing the system!
Click to expand...
Photo OHIP cards was one of Mike Harris’ attempts to demonize immigrants, and truly had nothing to do with saving money.
 
this health card discussion is off topic and annoying to me and as much as id like to say something id rather stop this discussion

Regardless, its not easy to measure the cost-benefits of more fare enforcement. How much can we reasonably reduce fare evasion? How much can we bring in in fines? And what of the 2nd order effects that cant be easily measured in $$- a safer ttc could bring in more users and how in the world will you measure that? A great deal of even the first order numbers are unknown to us.

As i mentioned in my prev. comment a page back... I think focusing purely recoverable revenue vs. cost of enforcement is missing the bigger picture of any 2nd order effects.

That being said- what is even the current state of fare enforcement on the TTC? When i used to ride LSW 5 days a week i was fare checked ~1/mo. and id reckon 5-10% of people hadn't paid.

Only seen a provincial officer once and I wasnt even on the streetcar, just saw em board. But i dont regularly take the TTC.
 
lastcommodore said:
Regardless, its not easy to measure the cost-benefits of more fare enforcement. How much can we reasonably reduce fare evasion? How much can we bring in in fines? And what of the 2nd order effects that cant be easily measured in $$- a safer ttc could bring in more users and how in the world will you measure that? A great deal of even the first order numbers are unknown to us.
Click to expand...
For me, recovering the cost of fare evasion is not the priority. Instead the focus is the 2nd order effects you allude to. Yesterday I took the 501 from Regent St to Neville Park, and some guy at the very back was muttering to himself and then urinated on the floor before walking off, leaving the rear of the car smelling like piss, and all of us normies feeling rather disjointed. Fare enforcement would help to bring back civility to the streetcars because in all likelihood the insane and addicted among us who cannot pay their way and be civil won't be riding them.
 
lastcommodore said:
Only seen a provincial officer once and I wasnt even on the streetcar, just saw em board. But i dont regularly take the TTC.
Click to expand...

I ride the streetcar almost daily (504 or 505 mostly) and see them way too infrequently. Not nearly often enough to make someone think as they board that they have a reasonably likely chance of being fare-checked on that ride.
 
evandyk said:
I ride the streetcar almost daily (504 or 505 mostly) and see them way too infrequently. Not nearly often enough to make someone think as they board that they have a reasonably likely chance of being fare-checked on that ride.
Click to expand...
I've watched them fare check passengers and when they don't have POP the officers let them get off. This is especially the case if the passenger is not sane or sober. I've never once seen anyone detained or fined. We need to recognize that this city, like many urban areas in North America suffers from a population of zombie-like addicts, often appearing like they came off the set of Michael Jackson's Thriller. The fentanyl, mental health and housing crisis has made this worse. So we can't run our streetcars like it's the 1980s when everyone paid their way, was mostly polite, sane and civil. If the city doesn't prevent the urine-soaked zombies from getting on the streetcars for free, then the rest of us normies will drive their cars, walk or cycle.
 
Last edited:
Admiral Beez said:
I've watched them fare check passengers and when they don't have POP the officers let them get off. This is especially the case if the passenger is not sane or sober. I've never once seen anyone detained or fined. We need to recognize that this city, like many urban areas in North America suffers from a population of zombie-like addicts, often appearing like they came off the set of Michael Jackson's Thriller. The fentanyl and housing crisis has made this worse. So we can't run our streetcars like it's the 1980s when everyone paid their way, was mostly polite, sane and civil. If the city doesn't prevent the urine-soaked zombies from getting on the streetcars for free, then the rest of us normies will drive their cars, walk or cycle.
Click to expand...
IMG_6517.png

You’re totally right. People will gaslight you from their keyboards, but no reasonable person with a job feels safe in transit surrounded by mentally ill druggies. If Air Canada had a policy that they let drunks from the airport bar stumble onto whatever planes they want without a ticket and yell up and down the aisles in flight, you wouldn’t spend your time blaming the lack of alcoholism support at the airport or telling everyone that it “really isn’t that bad” and that “you lack empathy, this is just what living in big city is like”- you just stop flying Air Canada.
 
Last edited:
Admiral Beez said:
I've watched them fare check passengers and when they don't have POP the officers let them get off. This is especially the case if the passenger is not sane or sober. I've never once seen anyone detained or fined.
Click to expand...
Get off? They don't even wake them.

I don't see how any one expects second order effects from fare enforcement, without policy changes.
 
ownthesky said:
View attachment 719257
You’re totally right. People will gaslight you from their keyboards, but no reasonable person with a job feels safe in transit surrounded by mentally ill druggies. If Air Canada had a policy that they let drunks from the airport bar stumble onto whatever planes they want without a ticket and yell up and down the aisles in flight, you wouldn’t spend your time blaming the lack of alcoholism support at the airport or telling everyone that it “really isn’t that bad” and that “you lack empathy, this is just what living in big city is like”- you just stop flying Air Canada.
Click to expand...

I'm confused. Is Admiral Beez Jesus here?
 
ownthesky said:
If Air Canada had a policy that they let drunks from the airport bar stumble onto whatever planes they want without a ticket and yell up and down the aisles in flight, you wouldn’t spend your time blaming the lack of alcoholism support at the airport or telling everyone that it “really isn’t that bad” and that “you lack empathy, this is just what living in big city is like”- you just stop flying Air Canada.
Click to expand...
They already do, you just require a ticket. Not only that, they'll give/sell you more alcohol to become a belligerent a-hole for your next connecting flight.

The TTC floods with drunken belligerent a-holes every evening near closing time; every time there's a sports event or concert; every New Years Eve, St. Patrick's Day, Victoria Day, Canada Day, Hallowe'en and Christmas Eve.

Does paying a fare give you more of a right to be a drunken arse on public transit?
 
zang said:
Photo OHIP cards was one of Mike Harris’ attempts to demonize immigrants, and truly had nothing to do with saving money.
Click to expand...
Frankly, that is nonsense. The old red & white lifetime cards were a serious source of misuse. I know of several former Canadians who used their health cards here years after they left the country but kept visiting to have annual check-ups etc.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top