[W. K. Lis]

Traffic congestion. That streetcar is going to be parked at Victoria westbound, if it had 3 doors, 4 doors, or nothing but doors. It's not the loading time that's most significant ... it's the traffic in rush hour. If you really want it to change it, you get rid of the cars. If you do that, then you can get rid of Victoria.

Look at any of the current streetcars and buses at any stop, you'll see people exiting through the front doors and barely few exiting the rear doors. That's the able-bodied people.

Myself, once I get Presto and the new streetcars, I'll be using the rearmost doors to enter and/or exit. Back in the days of the old MU streetcar trains, I would always use the rear car because I would be sure of getting a seat.

 

[ShonTron]

Traffic congestion. That streetcar is going to be parked at Victoria westbound, if it had 3 doors, 4 doors, or nothing but doors. It's not the loading time that's most significant ... it's the traffic in rush hour. If you really want it to change it, you get rid of the cars. If you do that, then you can get rid of Victoria.

Parked? Seriously? The traffic only backs up there on occasion in the afternoon rush hours and a busy shopping Saturday. I used to work right near that corner. Why do people keep having to think of reasons to save the Victoria stops?

 

[ksun]

Traffic congestion. That streetcar is going to be parked at Victoria westbound, if it had 3 doors, 4 doors, or nothing but doors. It's not the loading time that's most significant ... it's the traffic in rush hour. If you really want it to change it, you get rid of the cars. If you do that, then you can get rid of Victoria.

now congestion, since the old/sick theory obviously doesn't fly.
You think there is no congestion in Manhattan or Paris where density is 5X higher? Do you see any 90M transit spacing at all? Anything less than 300 meters is absolutely ridiculous no matter how you justify it.

I live right beside this stop and take the streetcar from time to time, and west bound 501 doesn't always "park" there at all. Toronto is just a mid-sized city by world standards, so get over your "congestion is unbelievably bad so we are so special" way of thinking. If congestion is the reason for having so many short stops, then buses in Tokyo and Shanghai would have a stop every single 50 meters.

 

[nfitz]

now congestion, since the old/sick theory obviously doesn't fly.

What do you mean? The first time this came up in this thread I discussed Victoria at length, and never mentioned the hospital (nor had anyone else at that point, I think). And when it came up again this year, my first mention of Victoria included the words "My argument for keeping it though, isn't related to the hospital".

Why do you try and it appear that I first made it sound like there should be a stop because it was a hospital, when I've not done that?

You think there is no congestion in Manhattan or Paris where density is 5X higher?

Every streetcar I've seen in Manhattan and Paris is on an exclusive right-of-way. If you put our streetcars on an exclusive right-of-way, I agree, get rid of Victoria.

Do you see any 90M transit spacing at all? Anything less than 300 meters is absolutely ridiculous no matter how you justify it.

Spelling "metre" as "meter is absolutely ridiculous no matter how you try to justify it!

It's not hard to find similar spacings in New York City to Toronto. I dare say that their downtown bus routes have generally shorter spacings than we do now. 90 metres is generally far too close, and I've argued that many a stop should be eliminated. But I've sat on enough streetcars stranded near Victoria, and seen enough people get off at Victoria, heading westbound, that I think these stops are reasonable on King, Queen, and Dundas. But there are many more stops on the system that I think we can agree should be removed.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Maybe they could make the westbound Victoria stop for discharging of passengers only and the westbound Yonge stop for embarking passengers only. For eastbound, the Yonge stop would be for discharging passengers, while the Victoria stop would embark passengers.

Don't get started with the "white zone" "red zone" business.

 

[picard102]

Why do people keep having to think of reasons to save the Victoria stops?

Their great grandparents immigrated to Canada via the Victoria stop.

 

[W. K. Lis]

When Roncesvalles was rebuilt, all the Sunday stops were removed. In addition, the Fern Avenue southbound stop was removed, because the southbound High Park Blvd. stop was shifted from a nearside stop to a farside stop.

I have no problems missing the Fern Avenue stop.

 

[Palma]

How many people even know about Sunday stops? With the new longer streetcars, it would appear that if the Victoria stop is removed, when the streetcar gets to Yonge, due to ita length, won't the back of it probably be near Victoria street (former stop) so passengers can still go to the back of the streetcar and exit those doors?

The same thing can be said for removing the Vaughan stop. Plus not only is there a stop at Bathurst just west of the street, there is also one I believe at Bathurst just east as soon as you go past the intersection. Plus I think there is also one as soon as streetcar comes out from underground right in front of Loblaws so that those residents that live south of St Clair behind the park can get across the street instead of having to walk all of what 5 min or less to Bathurst and crossing the street. This is all nonsense. This needs to be done away with. There is also a stop (perhaps its not a stop but just a stop light) in front of an apartment building on St Clair. Its not even at an intersection. On the north side is a church. This is crazy and I never see anyone leaving that apartment and I go across that stretch every morning and why it does take so long to get across that street on the streetcar and with a car. It takes forever to get from right before Vaughan to Spadina (in the car) but not much faster with a streetcar

 

[nfitz]

Their great grandparents immigrated to Canada via the Victoria stop.

... who hasn't. It's still the stop for the passport office.

How many people even know about Sunday stops?

Why would anyone who lives in Toronto where such stops exist and uses transit not know about them? There's big SUNDAY signs on some stops. And on Sundays the computer announces the stops.

With the new longer streetcars, it would appear that if the Victoria stop is removed, when the streetcar gets to Yonge, due to ita length, won't the back of it probably be near Victoria street (former stop) so passengers can still go to the back of the streetcar and exit those doors?

No. The new Queen streetcars are 30 metres long, compared to 23 metres for the old ones; it's only 30% longer. It's not a 7-metre walk currently ...

 

[ksun]

How many people even know about Sunday stops? With the new longer streetcars, it would appear that if the Victoria stop is removed, when the streetcar gets to Yonge, due to ita length, won't the back of it probably be near Victoria street (former stop) so passengers can still go to the back of the streetcar and exit those doors?

Plus I think there is also one as soon as streetcar comes out from underground right in front of Loblaws so that those residents that live south of St Clair behind the park can get across the street instead of having to walk all of what 5 min or less to Bathurst and crossing the street. This is all nonsense. This needs to be done away with.

Same can be said about Sussex stop for 510. It is 150 meters from Harbord, which is only 450M from Spadina station.
The streetcar seems to be stopping every 20 seconds on that route.

 

[nfitz]

Same can be said about Sussex stop for 510. It is 150 meters from Harbord, which is only 450M from Spadina station.
The streetcar seems to be stopping every 20 seconds on that route.

Indeed it does. First it waits for ever on a red light, and then it waits forever while you try and squeeze more sardines in the can, often leaving people behind. I seldom ever hit a single light on green!

If they'd have gone for near-side stops, it would have been faster.

Despite the right-of-way, scheduled travel times are slower than parallel routes without a right of way. In PM rush, King to Spadina station on Spadina is scheduled as 16 minutes. The Bathurst Streetcar is 14 minutes from King to Bathurst Station. The Ossington bus is 14 minutes from King/Shaw to Ossington Station. The Yonge bus is 12 minutes from King/Yonge to Yonge/Bloor. The Parliament bus is 14 minutes from King/Parliament to Castle Frank station. Oddly the Sherbourne bus is showing at 16 minutes from Front/Sherbourne (there is no King stop currently) to Sherbourne station, even though I find it's faster from King to Dundas than Parliament Only the Bay bus is slower.

 

[W. K. Lis]

... who hasn't. It's still the stop for the passport office.

Why would anyone who lives in Toronto where such stops exist and uses transit not know about them? There's big SUNDAY signs on some stops. And on Sundays the computer announces the stops.

No. The new Queen streetcars are 30 metres long, compared to 23 metres for the old ones; it's only 30% longer. It's not a 7-metre walk currently ...

Except in the case where two (or three or more) of the new streetcars bunch up at Yonge Street, and they decide to open the doors on the streetcar(s) following.

 

[Electrify]

Maybe they could make the westbound Victoria stop for discharging of passengers only and the westbound Yonge stop for embarking passengers only. For eastbound, the Yonge stop would be for discharging passengers, while the Victoria stop would embark passengers.

Don't get started with the "white zone" "red zone" business.

I've always thought this could make the nearside/farside intersection stops somewhat logical. Unless you have mobility challenges, in which case an exception can be made, you should have no problems crossing the street.

 

[nfitz]

Except in the case where two (or three or more) of the new streetcars bunch up at Yonge Street, and they decide to open the doors on the streetcar(s) following.

I assume that habit will be coming to a stop with the new streetcars, as there won't be a wheelchair ramp in the right location otherwise. As this has always been at the operators discretion, I'd think if they continued the current practice, you'd have havoc if people thought they could board the car behind at the same time ... with people walking out into traffic to press the button to activate the doors ... and not knowing if the doors would open, or if the car would move forward to the stop.

 

[ShonTron]

I assume that habit will be coming to a stop with the new streetcars, as there won't be a wheelchair ramp in the right location otherwise. As this has always been at the operators discretion, I'd think if they continued the current practice, you'd have havoc if people thought they could board the car behind at the same time ... with people walking out into traffic to press the button to activate the doors ... and not knowing if the doors would open, or if the car would move forward to the stop.

It won't ever line up exactly. It will be interesting to see if the cars on the right will give enough room to deploy the ramp when it is requested. It's been many tight squeezes through the back doors as it is between cars.