[kEiThZ]

Another concern: Are the immigration authorities prepared to deal with the massive flood of Haitian refugees who will find Canada much closer and easier to reach?

Our navy and coast guard could handle it if they built the proper facilities over there. It's not that formidable a task. The US handles Cuban refugees from mere miles away. Turks and Caicos is a much smaller area to watch over.

 

[Tewder]

Given our relationship with the Carribean countries (for example we pretty much train and manage several military forces in the region, Canadian banks dominate the region, etc.) I think we should formalize it and take on some of these places as part of Canada. At the very least, we'd keep a lot of Canadian tourist dollars inside the country...

... and potentially encourage foreign tourist dollars by promoting a safe, tolerant and 'Canadian' island destination for North Americans and Europeans. Imagine 'Pride' in the islands, how amazing!!

 

[Whoaccio]

It may make sense to hypothetically admit the TnC as a part of Ontario so as to cover them under the same securities framework as the TSX. Another issue could be currency. TnC, as with most tourist driven Caribbean islands, use the USD for simplicity. Moving to the CAD could have disruptive effects on the local economy as US tourists, the majority of all Caribbean tourists by a wide margin, go to jurisdictions like Bahamas. Most countries in the region are officially pegged to the USD (i.e. Bahamas, East Caribbean Dollar, Barbadian Dollar) and de facto use the USD for tourism related activities. Even Cuba accepted the USD as tender until '04 and still pegs one of it's currencies to the USD. As far as I know, French territories which use the Euro tend to have less developed tourism industries than USD based areas.

 

[gei]

It may make sense to hypothetically admit the TnC as a part of Ontario so as to cover them under the same securities framework as the TSX. Another issue could be currency. TnC, as with most tourist driven Caribbean islands, use the USD for simplicity. Moving to the CAD could have disruptive effects on the local economy as US tourists, the majority of all Caribbean tourists by a wide margin, go to jurisdictions like Bahamas. Most countries in the region are officially pegged to the USD (i.e. Bahamas, East Caribbean Dollar, Barbadian Dollar) and de facto use the USD for tourism related activities. Even Cuba accepted the USD as tender until '04 and still pegs one of it's currencies to the USD. As far as I know, French territories which use the Euro tend to have less developed tourism industries than USD based areas.

A decrease in tourists would be the opposite of their real problem. Should this happen I would expect to see tourism explode down there. I would be the first to hop on a plane and see our new territory.

 

[Whoaccio]

^
The problem with that though is that Canadians tourists are nowhere near as relevant to Caribbean tourism as American ones. It is just a numbers game, there are 10 of them for every one of us, and most of them are closer and richer. Intraprovincial tourism in Canada is pretty anemic as it is, so I don't see why we would suddenly be induced to travel to the Turks and Caicos when nothing of the sort has happened here.

Every single Caribbean country is far more integrated into the American economy than the Canadian one, hence virtually every Caribbean nation basing their currencies on the USD. I don't see how the Turks and Caicos would benefit from replacing their de facto use of the USD with the CAD.

 

[gei]

^
The problem with that though is that Canadians tourists are nowhere near as relevant to Caribbean tourism as American ones. It is just a numbers game, there are 10 of them for every one of us, and most of them are closer and richer. Intraprovincial tourism in Canada is pretty anemic as it is, so I don't see why we would suddenly be induced to travel to the Turks and Caicos when nothing of the sort has happened here.

Every single Caribbean country is far more integrated into the American economy than the Canadian one, hence virtually every Caribbean nation basing their currencies on the USD. I don't see how the Turks and Caicos would benefit from replacing their de facto use of the USD with the CAD.

I actually don't believe any of that. I would if I saw some cold hard numbers. But from my own anecdotal experiences traveling across carribean islands, I generally find WAY more Canadians around than Americans. Perhaps we just travel more?

The only place where I found this to be an exception was Puerto Rico... and for obvious reasons.

 

[kEiThZ]

I believe Canadians make up a large portion of the tourist traffic for Turks and Caicos, and a significant portion of investors as well...and that's why it was suggested for them to absorbed into Canada.

 

[Whoaccio]

According to the Turks and Caicos department of Economic Planning and Statistics, the breakdown of visitors by nation to the TC are as follows for the most recent year with available statistics.

USA - 169,662
Canada - 29,802
Europe - 24,834
Caribbean - 21,908
Other - 2,137
TOTAL - 248,343

So the USA represents about 68% of total tourists to the TCI

EDIT: Further, the TCI info page on their international trade shows that NAFTA is by an obscene margin their main trading partner, and this data from the US govt shows most of that comes from the US itself. So, yea, clearly the Turks and Caicos is more integrated with the US than Canada.

 

[gei]

According to the Turks and Caicos department of Economic Planning and Statistics, the breakdown of visitors by nation to the TC are as follows for the most recent year with available statistics.

USA - 169,662
Canada - 29,802
Europe - 24,834
Caribbean - 21,908
Other - 2,137
TOTAL - 248,343

So the USA represents about 68% of total tourists to the TCI

EDIT: Further, the TCI info page on their international trade shows that NAFTA is by an obscene margin their main trading partner, and this data from the US govt shows most of that comes from the US itself. So, yea, clearly the Turks and Caicos is more integrated with the US than Canada.

Fair enough.

However I still beleive the small number of US tourists who would be turned off by Canadian dollars (or whatever you suggest would keep them away), would be more than offset by the tremendous increase in Canadian tourists.

 

[salvius]

Places around the border here don't have trouble dealing with US dollars, so I don't see why Turks and Caicos couldn't accept it, even if the official currency changed to CAD.

 

[Whoaccio]

1.) TCI have an economy of about 800m USD. They also run a balance of trade deficit with the USA of about 424m USD, or about half of GDP. As it is they use the USD, so they have no exchange rate problems. By switching to the CAD, the TCI would have to cope with the cheaper Canadian currency which would directly make US imports more expensive. Given that the scale of their US imports, moving to the CAD could have seriously negative repercussions.

2.) The Caribbean tourism industry de facto runs on the USD. Either by basing their currency on the USD itself or by simply accepting the USD as currency for tourism related activities. Switching to the CAD can't possibly make tourism more attractive. It wouldn't by itself destroy the tourism industry in the TCI or anything, but it certainly wouldn't help to make it harder for ~70% of the islands' tourists to spend their money there. There is a reason why Britain made the currency the USD.

3.) Monetary unions (which I assume would come with having the TCI join confederation) only make sense when the two economies have a high degree of interrelatedness. There is no common labor market between the TCI and Canada, there is no major trade relationship between the two and there is no similarity in economic composition. We basically have about as much in common with the Falkland Islands than we do with the Turks and Caicos.

4.) It would make more sense for islands like the TCI to reattempt the West Indies Federation and, once that gets worked out, have them maybe join Canada as a province of about like 4m or whatever.

 

[afransen]

I think TnC could siphon off many Canadian travellers from other Caribbean destinations to help offset any potential loss in US travellers. To be clear, currency law in Canada says that Canadian currency must be accepted, but does not preclude any other currency being accepted as payment, so I'm sure USD would still be commonly accepted.

I would also point out that there are many Canadian snowbirds that would likely be drawn away from Florida, etc. since they would not have to return for six months a year. They also would not need to buy supplementary health insurance while they are there.

It is conceivable that TnC could also gain some regional offices for Canadian firms doing business in the Caribbean.

 

[kEiThZ]

^ Exactly. Whoaccio, I think you're missing the supply side of the tourist equation here. Imagine having a destination in the Caribbean where every Canadian could travel without a passport. That would be the end of Florida. Keep in mind, that unlike the States there is no part of Canada that even approaches a climate of Florida let alone TnC. It would become destination #1 for every retiring Canadian and every Canadian march/reading week/spring-breaker.

And it would be great for the CF to finally have a base in Carribean for all their work in the region. It was a blow to close down the small station that used to be there in Bermuda.

 

[urbanfan89]

Perhaps Canada could do to T&C, what US did to Guam. Make it the fourth territory, albeit one with more autonomy: its own immigration rules (so that a foreigner who can enter T&C cannot necessarily enter Canada proper), and its own currency (continues the USD). But still, the only benefit a Canadian would see in choosing T&C over Florida is that there will be no visas to worry about. An given that a retirement home in Fort Meyers is a fixed investment, I doubt many people will actually move.

Fun to think about, though.

 

[waterloowarrior]

If they join, how about if some Canadian universities set up satellite campuses there. It would be fun to take some classes or even a full degree for a similar price as going to school here, and it could offer good opportunities for some fields.