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imo the Unions in the public sector are no longer here to protect workers.

They are here to extort as much from Taxpayers as possible for their own benefit.
 
For the most part, labor laws have made unions obsolete. Frankly, I resent the idea of someone making $22 an hour to turn a wrench in a factory floor.

The only people worth that kind of money have spent 3+ years in college or university.

Exactly. And this where the unions are completely off in who they target. Their antics in the auto sector and other manufacturing are driving good jobs offshore. Meanwhile, people like my gf suffer. She has spent 3 years in university and 2 years in college to become a chef, and makes 12 bucks an hour. If there is a sector that needs to unionized its the food services industry.

imo the Unions in the public sector are no longer here to protect workers.

They are here to extort as much from Taxpayers as possible for their own benefit.

Exactly again. Only people who work in the public sector get this part. Nobody in the public sector, ever gets fired. They simply get shuffled on from dept to dept. While there are a lot of good people, the rotten apples really bring down the lot. I have a guy in my office who actually naps at his desk and he's been here ten years. And another individual who is downright incompetent and openly racist (disastrous for somebody analyzing foreign and military affairs) but management can't fire her because she's threatened to take it to the union. Meanwhile I am stuck redoing all her work. The best we can do is try and convince her to leave on her own to another government dept/ministry so that we can hopefully get someone competent.
 
Unions are anything but an anachronism - they are as needed today as they were in the 19th century. However, they are democratic institutions and there is no safeguard against greed. You see the same thing when City Council or wealthy corporate CEOs give themselves huge raises. Greed is a human condition, not a by-product of unions. Nor is greed the only goal a union has/should have.


The difference is CEOs compete with each other, and have their wages/benefits approved by the shareholders of their company. There are cases of idiotic shareholder approving grotesque salaries for CEOs in companies which routinely fail to do anything (GM anyone?) but it is their capital at stake. They invested it, and it's theirs to loose.

More over, most CEOs have to work damn hard to get there. You would be surprised how many MBAs and BComms are out there competing for these jobs. From personal experience, someone starting in these fields can expect 6-7 day weeks and to be in the office at 6am till 9pm and if you don't have clear and tangible benefits to the firm, you get fired. The real sweatshop of the 21st century is white collar. So, it's not like CEO's just waltz in and get absurd wages, they typically earn it.

The problem in Canada is that a disproportionately high amount of unionized workers are in the public service. Their unions fight for better wages that come out of tax payers money, true, but if workers in the private sector were getting the same wage increases there would be more tax revenue to cover the costs.

Not necessarily. Think about it, a firm sets up shop making a gizmo and in order to produce this profitably they can, say, spend 100$ a year on labor. Assuming a minimum wage of 10$/year, they can hire ten workers to make the gizmo. If the workers unionized, and demanded a raise to 20$/yr without any rise in productivity, the firm will either cut costs and employ only 5 people to remain profitable (offshore to China...) or just go bankrupt (GM, Chrysler). Either way, if the firm can only spend 100$ on labor to stay profitable, endlessly rising wages (which don't represent a bump in productivity) will either shrink the workforce to bankrupt the company.

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If you look at the state of the labour market in Canada today where there's people working off two full time jobs just to make the ends meet, where for many people a liveable wage is becoming increasingly hard to come by, the idea of the union becomes quite applicable to our world, our city right now. We have women working in the custodial industry not getting paid for months too afraid to do anything about it because they can barely speak English. We have garment makers doing work outside of their homes from a small percentage of the pay they would've made in a unionized factory. We have educators around the province find stable and well-paying jobs increasingly hard to come by.

Unions wont solve that, if anything, they would just make it worse. You can see this in any country with robust labor laws. A select few get unionized jobs with all of the benefits, but they drive up the cost of doing business in a country. Firms (excluding government), are naturally profit maximizing, so they will just hire less people. As a result, unemployment goes through the roof. They people that get especially screwed are the poor and uneducated. Look at Europe, even with moderate or negative population growth, they routinely have unemployment in the double digits. There are vast segments of society in France (mainly immigrants) who are completely frozen out of the labor market because of unions.

If you wanted to improve the quality of life for marginalized residents, you would be better off providing better services to them. If they can't speak English and get a decent job, we would be better simply giving them an education than trying to unionize the nanny industry. Transit, social housing, E.I. and education. Ironically, as we have seen elsewhere, the unionization of these services results in grossly unsustainable wage hikes. What happens? Tax hikes, which drive off employment (screwing the poorest most) or service cuts (also, screwing the poorest most).
 
unions & employers - can't live with them, can't live without them. they both do & don't suck & neither of them are going anywhere.
 
On a happy union note, the UFCW has managed to get a collective agreement at a WalMart store in Gatineau! It's only for the 9 people in the garage, but it's still a big victory. Regardless of their excesses in the public sector, WalMart is one place where unionization is desperately needed, if only because of the unfair competitive position it gives them vis-a-vis unionized (and Canadian) workplaces like Loblaws.
 
I'm starting a pool as to when that Wal-Mart will close, with the excuse that the location is no longer "profitable".
 
On a happy union note, the UFCW has managed to get a collective agreement at a WalMart store in Gatineau! It's only for the 9 people in the garage, but it's still a big victory. Regardless of their excesses in the public sector, WalMart is one place where unionization is desperately needed, if only because of the unfair competitive position it gives them vis-a-vis unionized (and Canadian) workplaces like Loblaws.

Good maybe more wal marts will follow. I wish i worked in unionized work place i can't afford another pay cut that i took 2 years ago.
 
^Anyone with talent or ambition gains very little from being in a union except if their talent or ambition is to gain leadership in the union.

I'm not sure I agree with the general sentiment that public unions are inappropriate. In some ways public sector unions are more appropriate then those in the private sector. In many areas of employment because the public sector is a monopoly public sector employees have little choice and so unionization and collective agreements protect them from abuse by an otherwise overly powerful employer. Where this works is where the government works on behalf of the citizenry and the public sector unions look after their specific workers. Where this is perverse is where the government sides with or is sympathetic to the unions and where the unions seek jursidiction outside their specific mandate.

In the private sector, industry sectors should legally be competitive. This may not be the case as most successful business will eventually seek to dominate a market or act to reduce competition. In a competitive environment unions can only be effective for their membership if they themselves act in an anti-competitive monopolistic fashion. Walmart may not be the best example because they form a near monopoly in many markets, but the truth that many don't want to here is that low paying work is generally low paying because it just isn't worth more. Artificially raising the price of low paying work has positive and negative benefits to society, but it is best done across the board so that the rules are changed for everyone and the market can react accordingly.
 
^Anyone with talent or ambition gains very little from being in a union except if their talent or ambition is to gain leadership in the union.

Not true at all in large companies.

Large companies don't evaluate individuals and make cuts here and there, they often hack and slash entire departments. Whether you keep your job or not may depend on the performance of someone 4 positions senior to yourself.

A factory is either staffed for a shift and operational, or not staffed. You usually cannot reduce a shift by 10% and continue to operate the factory productively.

Your talents as an individual really don't matter in many cases. Collective bargaining makes perfect sense at those times.
 
I suspect that much of the anti-union rhetoric is from people who wish they were a member of one.

Hell no. I would go crazy in an environment that fostered social pressure to underperform. Or prohibited me from fixing a simple problem because it's someone else's job. Insanity....
 
Not true at all in large companies.

Large companies don't evaluate individuals and make cuts here and there, they often hack and slash entire departments. Whether you keep your job or not may depend on the performance of someone 4 positions senior to yourself.

A factory is either staffed for a shift and operational, or not staffed. You usually cannot reduce a shift by 10% and continue to operate the factory productively.

Your talents as an individual really don't matter in many cases. Collective bargaining makes perfect sense at those times.

Unions are anti-meritocratic. This makes a huge difference. Many, if not all, large companies have meritocratic management. The cream rises to the top because they earn it and are driven.

Whole departments are not cut simply because the VP for the last 18 months is an idiot. The department would have to be of little strategic or operational value. Beyond that, a well-managed company wouldn't just sack everyone in the department, regardless of the individuals' performance.
 
I'm starting a pool as to when that Wal-Mart will close, with the excuse that the location is no longer "profitable".

Exactly, what I was thinking. Just give it till the end of the reporting year. Their unionized wages (without increased productivity) will probably result in them underperforming compared to their peers, giving Walmart just the excuse it needs to close the place down. I give the unions credit though. They are finally focusing on the service sector, a segment of our economy where workers are truly undervalued, instead of going for the easy hits, like government offices.
 

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