[kettal]

But you would have a hard time agreeing that they would get express service before any other station/town/city on the same corridor got it?

With the exception of one train in the morning that runs express from Bramlea, this line is a limited service line (albeit with bigger plans ahead) with all trains making all stops.......if the KW service arrived before the corridor was ready for full service, then any trains serving KW and Guelph would have to stop at all stops too...just a line extension sort thingy.

Not sure what you're trying to get at here? Of course it will require additional service to the whole corridor.

Long-distance trains will be the logical choice for running express in the city. If the train is full by Georgetown Station, what would be the point in even stopping at Bramalea Station?

 

[EnviroTO]

Even in Japan where trains can get to almost every neighbourhood and town and where there is extremely high ridership the government needs to be involved in financing the creation of new infrastructure. It might be possible to run corridor services subsidy free if the train operators bore no cost for infrastructure or signalling. The nice thing is that the most expensive aspect of building new high-speed infrastructure (grading and blasting rock) is a one time expense and the maintenance costs of that new infrastructure is managable.

 

[DavidJamesTO]

It might be possible to run corridor services subsidy free if the train operators bore no cost for infrastructure or signalling.

That's the biggest thing that sets railways apart from airlines or bus companies. As one American commentator said, "You never see a snow plow with Greyhound painted on the side."

 

[golodhendil]

One thing that hasn't been discussed, and would cost practically nothing but change virtually everything is the customer service one receives on passenger rail in North America. I know people tire of hearing examples of how great European rail service is, but generally "service" is implied to mean how great their infrastructure is, rather than how great their actual customer service is, which is just as important and often overlooked. To compare:

Europe:

- train sits on platform with open doors, you walk onto train yourself and find a seat
- you are free to walk up and down the length of the train and sit anywhere as long as the seat is in the same class and is not reserved. Meals can be bought at a dining car, subcontracted to a private catering operator.
- only one or two conductors are on board a train, walking up and down the length and they generally don't care if you are not in your seat
- you can disembark at a station along the way, as long as it is en route and doesn't exceed the trip length you paid for. For example, if I was traveling between Toronto and Montreal, I could get off at Kingston and wander around that city for a few hours and then catch a later train to Montreal without paying for two tickets.

Canada:

- you have to line up to gain access to the train. Five or ten minutes before departure, they open the doors and you go to a car that is designated for your destination. You then search for a seat in that car only while others are frantically doing the same.
- you are confined to your car for the duration of the trip. Meals can only be purchased by a VIA conductor who pushes a cart through the aisles according to his/her schedule.
- There is a conductor for more or less every car. Their job is similar to the cabin crew of an airline: they serve food, collect tickets and make announcements.
- Your ticket is only valid for your final destination city. Even if you wanted to get out and forfeit your ticket, you couldn't because the conductor will only open the door at its designated stop.

Basically, passenger rail in Canada is like flying, only you trade more legroom and the lack of a security check for a much longer travel time and less flexible schedules. If VIA ever wants to be competitive with air travel - especially given the rise of niche operators like Porter - it not only has to improve its speed and reliability but it has to completely rethink the way customers are treated.

The comparison is not valid for "passenger rail in North America" as a whole, because except for the get-off-get-on part (which is questionable, as pointed out above by someone else), Amtrak runs trains in the same way as a "European" railway does, at least for non-overnight trains in the Northeast --- i.e., train sits on platform with opened doors, no assigned cars/seats, dining car, limited number of conductors who only check tickets and make announcements. On the other hand, HSTs in Europe do have assigned seats, something that Acela does not do.

 

[TOareaFan]

Not sure what you're trying to get at here? Of course it will require additional service to the whole corridor.

Long-distance trains will be the logical choice for running express in the city. If the train is full by Georgetown Station, what would be the point in even stopping at Bramalea Station?

I think we are, at least partially, agreeing.

I was simply replying to an earlier post that trains from KW would not stop at other stations along the line. I am just saying that all depends on the timing. Until the work is done on the south end of the corridor, there will be no additional trains....if the kw service arrives before that work is done, then the kw trains will have to stop all the way along the line as those trains are the only ones that serve the current commuter clients on the line.

The one station that I cannot see any trains bypassing is Bramalea....it is being continually groomed as the major station on this line with extensive bus links....can't see many (any?) trains bypassing Bramalea.

 

[nfitz]

There isn't assigned seating (well sometimes there is), but there are assigned cars and they generally discourage you from moving around the car because they write your destination on a post-it note and slap it on the overhead bin above your seat.

So they print the car number on the ticket now?

 

[Swarley]

So they print the car number on the ticket now?

For assigned seating trains - the busier ones I think - they give you a car and seat number.

 

[unimaginative2]

Generally speaking, I completely agree with you, Hipster. I find VIA's procedures to be antiquated and a bit baffling. The main reason they herd people into specific cars by destination is so that they don't have to open all of the doors at intermediate stations. It should be possible to reserve seats on every VIA train so you don't have to line up an hour in advance to sit together. VIA trains also tend to have way more staff than European trains.

That said, I find VIA's trains to be the most comfortable I've ever ridden, and I've been on quite a few railways. The cars are attractive, bright, and spacious. They're usually kept pretty immaculate. The seats are also roomy and comfortable. The service is usually quite friendly and the staff develop a familiarity with regular commuters. While the food carts limit your options (though it saves the cost of a dining car), I'd say VIA generally speaking gets its cars right. It's everything else that's a problem.

One thing that really drives me crazy is when they herd you all into one car, forcing you to sit separately from your companions, even when all of the other cars are completely empty. I usually sneak away, but it does result in quite a scowling from the staff.

VIA's doing pretty well. A friend was looking to travel to Montreal this weekend, but the return trip on Sunday is already fully booked in both classes. We need more frequencies now! I can't fathom why VIA can't add cars knowing that the trains are oversold this far in advance. Surely there's a surplus of cars now that they've bought all the Nightstock.

- you can disembark at a station along the way, as long as it is en route and doesn't exceed the trip length you paid for. For example, if I was traveling between Toronto and Montreal, I could get off at Kingston and wander around that city for a few hours and then catch a later train to Montreal without paying for two tickets.

In some places this is true, such as Germany. In France, it often isn't. While Germany has flat fares to most locations regardless of time and day of travel, SNCF varies its fares quite dramatically. While the former can be more convenient, I find the latter to be a better approach. The fantastic deals you can get if you travel at a slightly odd time definitely serve to even out loads and facilitate travel.

 

[kEiThZ]

Even in Japan where trains can get to almost every neighbourhood and town and where there is extremely high ridership the government needs to be involved in financing the creation of new infrastructure. It might be possible to run corridor services subsidy free if the train operators bore no cost for infrastructure or signalling. The nice thing is that the most expensive aspect of building new high-speed infrastructure (grading and blasting rock) is a one time expense and the maintenance costs of that new infrastructure is managable.

I am skeptcial that the Canadian public would be willing to take on the type of debt that the Japanese government took on from its national rail operator. According to Wiki its $310 billion in 2009:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japane...pan_Railway_Construction_Public_Corporation-1

 

[kEiThZ]

So they print the car number on the ticket now?

For some trains....the ones that they assign you a seat number on. But I think what Hipster was referring to is the practice of assigning cars (not seats) by destination. It's done so that VIA can load and unload only a handful of cars at non-terminus stops.

 

[Second_in_pie]

Even in Japan where trains can get to almost every neighbourhood and town and where there is extremely high ridership the government needs to be involved in financing the creation of new infrastructure. It might be possible to run corridor services subsidy free if the train operators bore no cost for infrastructure or signalling. The nice thing is that the most expensive aspect of building new high-speed infrastructure (grading and blasting rock) is a one time expense and the maintenance costs of that new infrastructure is managable.

Japan is the kind of system we should be trying to build. I wonder what the density in Southern Quebec and Southern Ontario will look like in the next 50 years, but even now it should be able to support an interlinked network like Japan has, albeit a few government subsidies.

But in terms of the rail operator providing the capital for new lines and high speed improvements, only when Air Canada starts building new airports will I expect for VIA to build it's corridors itself.

 

[cowpie]

Just in time for a strike. Sigh. All trains until noon Friday are supposed to be running, after that....

 

[waterloowarrior]

Courtesy of gokw.org:

Quote:
GO published their final Environmental Assessment documents this week and within was some interesting information about VIA Rail’s planned improvements. After some heavy reading, the following was published in Appendix B:

VIA Rail plans to add six new trains to the North Mainline, London to Toronto via Kitchener and Guelph. Trains departing from London at 1155, 1505, 1755, and departing from Toronto at 1300, 1630, 1830. This plan would provide off-peak service during the afternoons, and seems to avoid GO “Rush Hourâ€.

Very interesting news, as if this comes to pass we stand to have 12 VIA Rail and 8 GO Transit departures and arrivals per day by 2011, more than double today’s passenger rail service.

 

[kEiThZ]

But in terms of the rail operator providing the capital for new lines and high speed improvements, only when Air Canada starts building new airports will I expect for VIA to build it's corridors itself.

http://www.atac.ca/en/ourissues/advocacy/rents_paid_big3.html

The airports pay rents to the federal government and they fund their own further developments through airport improvement fees. Air Canada may not have built Pearson but it has certainly helped pay for it many times over. There aren't many scenario where a train operator would more than recover capital costs for HSR. Even the Japanese had to spend hundreds of billions on bailing out their rail service after it built an HSR network. I am not suggesting that I don't support HSR or that I think it should be completely funded by the private sector, but suggesting that airlines get a break and that's why trains should also get subsidies is terrible logical and patently false. If airlines got the kind of subsidies that VIA gets, air fares would probably get cut in half.

 

[Long Island Mike]

Will the Engineers Strike affect support for VIA?

Everyone: It is good to see the Canadian Federal Government supporting VIA but will that support be damaged by the Engineers Strike?

Are there politicians who are anti-VIA or have become so because of this strike?

I support good rail transportation and I hope that both sides agree on a contract they all can live with so Canada can improve its intercity rail service
in the best possible way.

I remember the 1990 cutbacks and there is no way that I would like to see that type of rail service cuts again...

Thoughts by Long Island Mike