[Jonny5]

So CBC says a VIA train hit an OC Transpo bus this morning? Multiple deaths. How does that even happen? Stunning news.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/via-train-ottawa-bus-collision-causes-multiple-deaths-1.1858868

 

[Admiral Beez]

How does that even happen?

Good question, especially since every bus is required to stop before all level crossings to look for trains. This is a requirement so that the bus is safe even if the level crossing lights, bells and arms are not functioning correctly.

There are only two reasonable explanations.

1) The bus entered the level crossing without first stopping to check for trains, due to:
- Omission or failure of barrier and lights
- Bus smashed through or drove around barrier
- Bus stopped long (thought he did stop in front of the tracks, but was actually on them already)


Or...

2) The bus stopped before the level crossing, looked for trains, but...
- driver didn't see any trains, barrier was up with no lights flashing, and proceeded onto crossing.
- bus broke down or otherwise forced to stop while in the crossing
- Train too fast - if too fast, the barrier may have not activated in time or driver didn't have chance to see train

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

News reports suggest #1.

AoD

 

[smallspy]

Good question, especially since every bus is required to stop before all level crossings to look for trains. This is a requirement so that the bus is safe even if the level crossing lights, bells and arms are not functioning correctly.

This is not a requirement in the HTA. It seems to be made at the municipal level, and in fact is not applied evenly.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[BurlOak]

News reports suggest #1.

AoD

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2013/09/18/21131816.html

Mark Cogan was waiting about four cars back on Woodroffe at the time of the crash.

He said both sets of guard rails were down at the intersection and the bus crashed through them.

“Everything was down, everybody was at a standstill,†he told QMI Agency. “(The bus) went through the guard rail.â€

He said it appeared the train was slowing down as it approached Fallowfield station.

The crash could have been worse, he said, had the train hit the bus head on.

Instead, Cogan said the bus hit the train on the “second or third car.â€

 

[W. K. Lis]

This is not a requirement in the HTA. It seems to be made at the municipal level, and in fact is not applied evenly.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

The rule is:

Stopping at railway crossings

All railway crossings on public roads in Ontario are marked with red and white “X” signs. Watch for these signs and be prepared to stop. You may also see yellow advance warning signs and pavement markings of a large X at approaches to railwaycrossings. Some railway crossings have flashing signal lights while some use gates or barriers to keep motorists from crossing the tracks when a train is coming.

Most buses and other public vehicles are required to stop at railway crossings that do not have automatic warning devices such as barriers and signal lights. School buses must stop at all railway crossings whether or not they have automatic warning devices. Motorists must be prepared to stop behind these vehicles. Obey all signs and signals. Remember — it can take up to two kilometres for a train to stop under full emergency braking.

When you come to a railway crossing, remember:

• Slow down, listen and look both ways to make sure the way is clear before crossing the tracks.
• If a train is coming, stop at least five metres from the nearest rail. Do not cross the track until you are sure the train or trains have passed.
• Never race a train to a crossing.
• If there are signal lights, wait until they stop flashing and, if the crossing has a gate or barrier, wait until it rises, before you cross the tracks.
• Never drive around, under or through a railway gate or barrier while it is down, being lowered or being raised. It is illegal and dangerous.
• Never stop on railway tracks. For example, in heavy traffic, make sure you have enough room to cross the tracks completely before you begin to cross.
• Don’t shift gears while crossing tracks.
• If you get trapped on a crossing, immediately get everyone out and away from the vehicle. Move to a safe place and then contact authorities.
• Buses and other public vehicles are required to stop at railway crossings that are not protected by gates, signal lights, or a stop sign. School buses must stop at railway crossings whether or not they are protected by gates or signal lights. Watch for these buses and be prepared to stop behind them.
• If you are approaching a railway crossing with a stop sign, you must stop unless otherwise directed by a flagman.

The railway crossing did have automatic devices, so the transit bus did not have to stop. HOWEVER, the crossing lights were ON and the gates down. Maybe the driver had a medical incident which will have to be examined at the autopsy of the driver.

TTC bus drivers are required to stop at any and all railway crossing, like a school bus.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

The crash could have been worse, he said, had the train hit the bus head on.

Instead, Cogan said the bus hit the train on the “second or third car.â€

There are some conflicting reports here. Another witness claimed the following;

One witness who was at the train station, Heather Hogan, gave a conflicting account, however, saying the bus was stopped on the tracks when the train collided with it.

Furthermore, Mark Cogan claim is also contradicted by the significant impact damage seen on the side of the locomotive as well as some minor damage to the front of the locomotive, with only minimal damage to the coaches behind.

 

[Swarley]

There are some conflicting reports here. Another witness claimed the following;



Furthermore, Mark Cogan claim is also contradicted by the significant impact damage seen on the side of the locomotive as well as some minor damage to the front of the locomotive, with only minimal damage to the coaches behind.

Well I think the only thing we can conclude is that as usual, eyewitness testimony is pretty much useless in determining what actually happened. Hopefully the train and bus had video recorders.

 

[Jonny5]

There are some conflicting reports here. Another witness claimed the following;

This person was several hundred metres away at the station. The G&M is quoting several people on the bus with the same story that it drove straight into the train without stopping at all, some saying it appeared to even accelerate into it.

Anyway, the driver has died, sadly. We will never know his side of what happened.

 

[cyruskafaiwu]

Living in Ottawa, buses never tend to stop (only in emergencies) and would go speeds of 80km/h on the transit way. I am not sure what happened at Fallowfield but maybe some better safety measures need to be put in place.

 

[CapitalSeven]

Living in Ottawa, buses never tend to stop (only in emergencies) and would go speeds of 80km/h on the transit way. I am not sure what happened at Fallowfield but maybe some better safety measures need to be put in place.

Buses never tend to stop? One of the witnesses on the bus stated he takes that run every day, and every day they stop for the train. There are about 3500 trains a year through there, and there has never been an accident at the intersection according to the city. So buses always "tend" to stop I would say.

 

[Electrify]

I'm thinking it was either a suicide or he was severely overworked to the point where his reflexes couldn't even keep him from running into a train at a protected crossing. I'm curious as to what his work schedule was like over the last week or so, and if he was on any medications or had any mental health issues at the time of the accident.

 

[doady]

I'm thinking it was either a suicide or he was severely overworked to the point where his reflexes couldn't even keep him from running into a train at a protected crossing.

The driver reportedly hit the brakes right before crashing. This whole thing was simply an accident.

 

[Cast2]

This accident reminds me of G.O. Train and T.T.C. bus collision back in 1975.

 

[BurlOak]

This accident reminds me of G.O. Train and T.T.C. bus collision back in 1975.

I wonder how many trains per day use this section of track.

The warrants for a grade-separation crossing must depend on the traffic volumes and on the train volumes. I have heard "hindsight is 20-20" people talking about the City planning a grade-separation but the cost was excessive ($80M). I would guess that grade-separation makes more sense were trains frequencies are higher than a few Via trains per day. Along commuter rail lines, it makes more sense since there are now probably close to 50 trains per day on the Lakeshore line. If you think of a train the same as an intersection with cross traffic - even 50 is not that large of a number. That is why if any rail line gets down to 5 or 10 minutes frequency, grade-separation is required.