Bureaucromancer
Active Member
On that wish list note, my big one is airline style lie flat pods. I really see it as more marketable here than the alternative budget sleeper options.
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- Thread starter ehlow
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Urban Sky
Senior Member
Keep in mind that we are talking about accommodation types for train services where only 40% rather than 80% of the time spent on board falls into night time. If you can’t expect passengers to stay in their booked space for much more than sleeping, you‘ll need much more lounge spaces…
micheal_can
Senior Member
From what little I have seen of those pods, they seem like little rooms. Since the various berths and roomettes are the most popular, this could be a great way to add that comfort.
drum118
Superstar
One can sit so long in one place that they have to get up and do some walking from my experience in Europe on long train rides. When it comes to sleeping, one can stay in their room for a limited time beside sleeping that they need to be out of the room and amount people.
Going to the new trainset will mean the loss of the dome car as well losing that scene view.
I have done the long overnight travel time trip and will never do another one to the point I will fly regardless of it being more costly.
Urban Sky
Senior Member
Just for the records, I‘m talking about sleeping pods and whereas they might be fine for someone travelling 8-12 hours overnight to get from A to B, they are far too claustrophobic for someone spending 2-4 days on a train where the trip is the destination:
I would rather frame it in a way that the new trainsets mean that these services will survive beyond 2035. What entirely non-essential amenities these trainsets will provide really pales in importance once you acknowledge this…
*shrugs intensely*
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crs1026
Superstar
The general point here is that the sightseeing and lounging/space amenities are a critical part of the rider experince on our long distance trains, and any new design needs to address that requirement..
I have taken enough single-night sleeper rides in various routes and countries where I barely raised the blinds, except for the last hour in the morning coming into the destination city, and never felt cheated. For a trip across this continent, I would want much better.
I'm taking the Ocean in a few weeks - first time for me without a dome - I admit being a bit apprehensive, and will be interested whether the lounge space is sufficient to "enjoy" the route especially for the daytime run towards Halifax. I'm not sure that a Ren car window and bench seat are really up to the mission - but Superliner, Viewliner, and HEP I berth and roomette spaces all seem to be enjoyble enough.
I don't know carbody construction well enough to know whether the CP domes are grandfathered or whether they meet the prevailing construction specs. Certainly the Skylines and Park Cars have shown no signs of wearing out faster than the single level cars, so I presume that their mode of construction is as robust as a standard single level railcar. So, if the new design proves to be single level, perhaps some iteration of dome space might be within budget even if it's a specialised adaptation of the main spec. If the design is bilevel, I sure hope something better than Amtrak Superliner lounges can be found.... they are not a favourite.
All a matter of personal taste, of course.
- Paul
Urban Sky
Senior Member
My entire point was that whereas lounge spaces with large windows are essential amenities for multi-day rides like VIA‘s only three routes which operate overnight, other land cruise operators like Rocky Mountaineer or Indian Pacific / The Ghan in Australia charge more than VIA does for the Canadian without (to the best of my knowledge) 360-degrees viewing opportunities…
I have to, hence my comments that European nighttrain equipment has been designed for very different overnight services than those we have here in Europe. Russia might be a better reference to copy for multi-day joirneys (though for literally nothing else)…
I feel similarly about the Ocean, though my reluctance is amplifief by the fact that I could still travel on a VIA employee pass when the Ocean had its dome!
Every design can be adapted to modern crashworthiness and accessibility requirements. The question is just how much money, delays, complexity and risks you are willing to add to your procurement. Given the urgency to have the fleet procured and delivered before 2035, I hope that they refrain from procuring car types with non-standard frames and shells and instead keep those for a seperate procurement (or if they can be included, make sure that they are produced seperately in a way that they fon‘t delay the rest of the trainsets).
Indeed, but given the urgency for speedy procurement, VIA has no such lucury than to ponder endlessly over tastes and preferences…
lenaitch
Senior Member
I agree. International and domestic tourism is a not-insignificant part of the Canadian ridership, and amenities such as sleepers, dining/galley and baggage (luggage) need to be addressed. Some kind of dome or at least large windowed panorama would also be beneficial if there are no structural issues.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Rocky Mountaineer does have panorama view cars, but they may be just recently acequired. A you say, they are much more expensive than VIA, but provide the whole excursion package (all daylight running, hotels, transport between, etc.).
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Urban Sky
Senior Member
No, I meant cars which allow views not just to the right or left (or top) of the train, but also its front and back. Granted, RMR seems to now have added some such cars into their fleet with their new Stadler-built Gold Leaf 3.0 cars, but unlike in a Skyline or Park dome, you‘d need to walk an entire car length to switch from front-facing to rear-facing views:
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micheal_can
Senior Member
Rocky Mountaineer is about the experience. They do not just have economy seats. They do not have a schedule that allows for it to be used for anything else. Trust me, I have looked into it.
Via is about the transportation of people. Yes, it can be about the experience, but it still is a transportation company. If I wanted to, I could get an economy seat for the entire route. It does make sense that the 2 would be priced differently.
Jeff Morgan
Active Member
On the TRTO->WDON right now. I’m shocked at how rough the ride is. It’s like being on a plan with constant turbulence. Makes it obvious how far we have to go in order to be ready form HSR.
crs1026
Superstar
While people do still ride the whole way in economy, the transportation element in our long distance trains has diminished and is pretty much a dead business. The coach portions of the Canadian consists are markedly smaller than even a few years ago.
Adding the fourth night to the schedule didn't help..
The long distance trains are about liesure travel. New equipment will have to reflect this.
- Paul
crs1026
Superstar
While I suspect that the new fleet will abandon the dome concept, I do think the short domes of the HEP I fleet are the optimal sightseeing experience of all. I would rate them much higher even than the longer domes used by others - eg the ex Milwaukee domes or those of SP or ATSF.
They are also an intimate space that encourages socialising....in fact, all of the spaces in the Canadian fleet are a perfect size for creating conversations and meeting people without cramming people together. For the money to be spent, I hope the designers will look at lounge spaces carefully.
The Stadler cars do offer excellent views, even when marshalled together so there is no direct looking-forward view. I agree that the dome is not the only enjoyable design, but a flat 4x6 window in a compartment is setting the standards fairly low. For the money, the new design ought to aspire to a superior experience, and not a mediocre one, otherwise why bother. Which is why I will cling to a hope that domes will be copied somehow.
The other amenity that the Statler cars offer (which I do not believe there is any hope of interesting VIA) is the open air deck. It may not be doable in January, but it's another can't-be-beat experience.
- Paul
trainfanjacob8
New Member
I wonder how much of it is the equipment, and how much of it is the track. Personally, I find the new Venture sets to be much smoother and quieter then LRC and HEP equipment. In regards to the track, it is frustrating to see how many slow orders have popped up on CN track in SWO over the last few years. Kitchener-London, Komoka-Glencoe, and Strathroy-Watford all have long sections of reduced speeds.