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APTA-2048 said:
Are you talking about the stainless steel cars? VIA is in the process of refurbishing the ones on The Canadian and giving them attractive, modern interiors. I'm sure the ones used in The Corridor can be given updated interiors like the refurbished LRCs and RDCs.
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There is an urban legend that those post-WW II stainless steel Budd coaches are indestructible and can be rebuilt over and over. Not so. They are tough, but lots of components incliding the suspension and trucks do wear out.

Those corridor HEP II coaches are in rough shape. Another rebuild would be a bad business decision relative to a new procurement. Sure, you can rewire and reupholster them again, but the ride won't improve, and you are limited to expensive old parts and the performance specs of a 1945-1950 design.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
There is an urban legend that those post-WW II stainless steel Budd coaches are indestructible and can be rebuilt over and over. Not so. They are tough, but lots of components incliding the suspension and trucks do wear out.

Those corridor HEP II coaches are in rough shape. Another rebuild would be a bad business decision relative to a new procurement. Sure, you can rewire and reupholster them again, but the ride won't improve, and you are limited to expensive old parts and the performance specs of a 1945-1950 design.

- Paul
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It's worse than than with the HEP II cars.

One of the main failings of the Budd cars - particularly the ones built in the late 1940s - is that it is not a worthwhile endeavour to repair/replace a side sill in the event of corrosion. The later cars (like the ones built for CPR in 1954) were built differently and can be (and in some cases, have been) done in a much more efficient manner.

And quite a few of the HEP II cars are now showing signs of side sill corrosion. Not enough yet to require pulling them from service, but now that the clock is ticking, it's just a matter of time. They have only another 5 or 10 years of service left in them.

And then there is the issue with the structures of the LRC cars.....

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
crs1026 said:
Another rebuild would be a bad business decision relative to a new procurement.
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Refurbish costs and not being guaranteed reliable and easy to maintain makes it a pretty easy decision. IIRC correctly, many of the stainless cars were collected from other North Am roads that no longer wanted them, so many are probably very dissimilar already to maintain. Plus they're heavy.

smallspy said:
The later cars (like the ones built for CPR in 1954) were built differently and can be (and in some cases, have been) done in a much more efficient manner.
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Interesting. Some of the US roads run them as corporate showcases, but it's obvious that it's a cost that only showcasing can rationalize. If VIA are to make good on their mandate for service, they need new stock. It's a given.
 
SamStar said:
To our understanding, the current estimates also take into consideration a Qc City-Montreal dedicated rail project which was not considered before.
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There's a a breakdown of the price that's confusing the issue. That $5B+ is for the whole shebang, including RoW. It includes what VIA projects private investment will pay for the track, and what government will provide in funding. The break-down of the figure is available somewhere, been quoted in this forum many times.
 
smallspy said:
The later cars (like the ones built for CPR in 1954) were built differently and can be (and in some cases, have been) done in a much more efficient manner.
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The basic performance spec of the old cars for long distance travel - speed, curves, ride etc- has not changed since the 1950's. If anything the cars are not being pushed as hard as they were when timings were faster and turnarounds and layovers were shorter.

For this reason, The HEP I long distance stock is good enough to keep going...for as long as they can be patched up and kept running, anyways....VIA has done a pretty amazing job cramming new amenities into those old shells. I wonder how long this will continue. While a new procurement would be an opportunity to achieve a much higher level of accommodation, I doubt it will ever happen. More money than any government of any political stripe could ever bring to the must-do priority level.

In contrast, we want a higher performance spec from any new corridor coach.... weight, ride, cant deficiency, tilt capability, door design, sound insulation, maintainability.....even if the HEP II cars could be refurbished economically to their as-built condition, they aren't what we need any more.

- Paul
 
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crs1026 said:
The basic performance spec of the old cars for long distance travel - speed, curves, ride etc- has not changed since the 1950's. If anything the cars are not being pushed as hard as they were when timings were faster and turnarounds and layovers were shorter.

For this reason, The HEP I long distance stock is good enough to keep going...for as long as they can be patched up and kept running, anyways....VIA has done a pretty amazing job cramming new amenities into those old shells. I wonder how long this will continue. While a new procurement would be an opportunity to achieve a much higher level of accommodation, I doubt it will ever happen. More money than any government of any political stripe could ever bring to the must-do priority level.

In contrast, we want a higher performance spec from any new corridor coach.... weight, ride, cant deficiency, tilt capability, door design, sound insulation, maintainability.....even if the HEP II cars could be refurbished economically to their as-built condition, they aren't what we need any more.

- Paul
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It has nothing to do with the duty cycle of the cars, although you're right that the HEP I equipment has lived a far less strenuous life than the HEP II equipment has, at least in the last 20 years.

The structures of the cars themselves are built quite a bit differently, and are at risk. And this is not anything that will deteriorate slower with less use.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
Anyone knowledgeable on the status of the Renaissance equipment? These cars were common on the Montreal-Toronto route, now no longer seen. I believe this equipment is now only used east of Montreal.
 
kEiThZ said:
Is it just me or do the costs and construction time keep rising?
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SamStar said:
To our understanding, the current estimates also take into consideration a Qc City-Montreal dedicated rail project which was not considered before.
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It's federal. We need to give candy to both Ontario AND Quebec.

On various issues of lore, we taxpayers know the feeling of having to feed the two gorillas of Canada. 2/3rd of Canada's population live in Ontario & Quebec) and additionally, also the Montreal-and-Toronto outsized rivalries of historical and financial importance over the years, decades, and centuries. Now there's a banana for Quebec too [cue sudden increase of VIA HFR budget to connect Montreal-Quebec].

And... there needs to also be some left for others where it makes sense. Edmonton-Calgary? Vancouver-Seattle? Feds might even have to announce those, too, to be fair to everyone. They're now lining up all the dominoes for the big Happy 150th Anniversary Canada Domino Fall Record.
 
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I get his concern. But I think it's a little overblown. GO building RER actually allows VIA to cut some stops while ensuring that those towns still get regular rail service. This allows the whole line to speed up.

I agree that the study should have been a wider overlook. But I'm hopeful that Collenette's study will go somewhere.
 
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