[Urban Sky]

^ any sense of what type of track work/upgrades would be required to have VIA trains go from the existing Windsor Station to the Detroit station, @smallspy ?

For starters, a connection curve from Windsor VIA Station in Walkerville towards the tunnel:

 

[Urban Sky]

Is it just me or is it no ridiculous to spend money on customs / border stuff between Canada and the US? We should be working toward a Schengen-like area with the US, not building more barriers. Or if it's too much effort to do this with the US, then join the Schengen area. If Norway and Iceland can be part of the Schengen-area without being part of the EU itself, why not Canada?

From just even cursorily following the news South of the border, what exactly makes you believe that there is any appetite in the US to loosen control over their borders? As was pointed out yesterday on SSP, border paranoia is very widespread not just at the United States’ southern border:

 

[Northern Light]

^ any sense of what type of track work/upgrades would be required to have VIA trains go from the existing Windsor Station to the Detroit station, @smallspy ?

In line w/ @Urban Sky 's post above, I posted the preliminary plan for routing the new service over in General Railway discussions, here:

General railway discussions

An interior shot of Michigan Central Station: Source/Credit: https://www.freep.com/picture-gallery/news/local/michigan/detroit/2024/06/03/inside-the-newly-renovated-michigan-central-station/73927188007/ What a difference lighting and fully restored floors make...........ahem Union Station.

urbantoronto.ca

 

[dowlingm]

For starters, a connection curve from Windsor VIA Station in Walkerville towards the tunnel:
View attachment 576758

Why not have the American train do a backing move into the station? After all, if it’s good enough for every VIA Canadian service that stops in Saskatoon in order to save a few dollars…

 

[Urban Sky]

Why not have the American train do a backing move into the station? After all, if it’s good enough for every VIA Canadian service that stops in Saskatoon in order to save a few dollars…

I’d assume that Canadian border authorities might worry that passengers inadmissible for entry to Canada could just jump off the train if there is a predictable stop before they arrive at the actual border station. Same reason why a Toronto-Buffalo train (with border facilities at Buffalo Exchange Station) would depend on a routing via Welland and Fort Erie and the construction of a new connection after entering the US:

 

[Garuda]

Is it just me or is it no ridiculous to spend money on customs / border stuff between Canada and the US? We should be working toward a Schengen-like area with the US, not building more barriers. Or if it's too much effort to do this with the US, then join the Schengen area. If Norway and Iceland can be part of the Schengen-area without being part of the EU itself, why not Canada?

I would personally love to see a Schengen style area with the US. I remember pre 9/11 governments openly talking about such a thing with sketches in textbooks dreaming of such a day.. Sadly 9/11 ruined lots of freedoms for a generation.

That said, with younger generations who grow up not knowing what pre internet society was like, they are going to wonder why hard borders exist. And once they start voting and having a sizeable effect on policy, things could very well move towards a open border.

 

[just east of the creek]

I would personally love to see a Schengen style area with the US. I remember pre 9/11 governments openly talking about such a thing with sketches in textbooks dreaming of such a day.. Sadly 9/11 ruined lots of freedoms for a generation.

That said, with younger generations who grow up not knowing what pre internet society was like, they are going to wonder why hard borders exist. And once they start voting and having a sizeable effect on policy, things could very well move towards an open border.

This vote will not happen south of the border. If anything, more the opposite.

 

[dowlingm]

I would personally love to see a Schengen style area with the US. I remember pre 9/11 governments openly talking about such a thing with sketches in textbooks dreaming of such a day.. Sadly 9/11 ruined lots of freedoms for a generation.

That said, with younger generations who grow up not knowing what pre internet society was like, they are going to wonder why hard borders exist. And once they start voting and having a sizeable effect on policy, things could very well move towards an open border.

Wanting a Schengen / common travel area is very understandable. However, I think it’s important for people who want to say “it can happen”, to have an appreciation of what is stopping it happening already.

You don’t even have to look very far - consider free trade. As long as things are working out for the US, great. But when it doesn’t…

Schengen is different because while there are large country players like FR, DE there isn’t the degree of disproportion for one specific country as on this side of the world. And the demand for a “heads I win tails you lose” approach to border control is why UK wouldn’t join Schengen (which in turn forced IE to stay out to preserve the existing IE-UK common travel area)

 

[crs1026]

Be careful what you wish for. If US/Canada were a common travel area, Canada would have to seal its share of the outer border to a degree that is acceptable to the other party. We do already, to a degree..... but our borders would have to be a lot harder to cross for that kind of deal to work. We don't even maintain a military these days, let alone defend our borders.

- Paul

 

[innsertnamehere]

open border also brings the US problems north.. Guns especially.

I'm not sure an entirely open border is an appropriate response - but certainly something much less stringent than current regulations. Making it easier for Citizens of each country to cross and live / work in either country, if not entirely Shengen-ish, is a worthwhile cause.

Hell, even moving to UK/EU style exterior border control would be hugely helpful. I went to the UK last year and didn't even talk to a border agent. A scan of my passport was all that was required. Simplification like that would go a long way even if you don't completely demolish all border control points.

 

[Northern Light]

I would personally love to see a Schengen style area with the US. I remember pre 9/11 governments openly talking about such a thing with sketches in textbooks dreaming of such a day.. Sadly 9/11 ruined lots of freedoms for a generation.

That said, with younger generations who grow up not knowing what pre internet society was like, they are going to wonder why hard borders exist. And once they start voting and having a sizeable effect on policy, things could very well move towards a open border.

open border also brings the US problems north.. Guns especially.

I'm not sure an entirely open border is an appropriate response - but certainly something much less stringent than current regulations. Making it easier for Citizens of each country to cross and live / work in either country, if not entirely Shengen-ish, is a worthwhile cause.

Hell, even moving to UK/EU style exterior border control would be hugely helpful. I went to the UK last year and didn't even talk to a border agent. A scan of my passport was all that was required.

The pre- 9/11 standard was much as it is today if flying; for land border crossings by car, the standard was a valid driver's license, passport or other provincial or federal photo identification.

* pre 9/11 much of that ID did not have associated online databases that were internet accessible. today most do.

I don't think there's anything intrinsic about a passport vs a driver's license in terms of making it more/less likely that someone will smuggle guns.
That is more determined by the rate/success of searches conducted by CBSA, and the associated charges/convictions and penalties.
The only issue whether the ID is easy to fake/verifiable.

Now here's the thing, if U.S. authorities have unfettered access to any given Canadian database (s) I can't imagine an issue from their perspective, and similarly so the other way around.

The only thing is....... that's a lot of databases and associated privacy issues.

Do we want your healthcard records available to U.S. Customs?

On driver's licenses, does this mean CBSA needs access to 50 States worth of DMV records? I assume the States would have to agree, and vice versa for 10 provinces and applicable territories.

****

I think there's merit to a somewhat less stringent/cumbersome level of border control, but the how we get there would be no small challenge.

 

[micheal_can]

The pre- 9/11 standard was much as it is today if flying; for land border crossings by car, the standard was a valid driver's license, passport or other provincial or federal photo identification.

* pre 9/11 much of that ID did not have associated online databases that were internet accessible. today most do.

I don't think there's anything intrinsic about a passport vs a driver's license in terms of making it more/less likely that someone will smuggle guns.
That is more determined by the rate/success of searches conducted by CBSA, and the associated charges/convictions and penalties.
The only issue whether the ID is easy to fake/verifiable.

Now here's the thing, if U.S. authorities have unfettered access to any given Canadian database (s) I can't imagine an issue from their perspective, and similarly so the other way around.

The only thing is....... that's a lot of databases and associated privacy issues.

Do we want your healthcard records available to U.S. Customs?

On driver's licenses, does this mean CBSA needs access to 50 States worth of DMV records? I assume the States would have to agree, and vice versa for 10 provinces and applicable territories.

****

I think there's merit to a somewhat less stringent/cumbersome level of border control, but the how we get there would be no small challenge.

I distinctly remember passing through the border as a young adult with just my birth certificate. Never did show them my drivers license. It was land crossing in Detroit/Windsor while driving my car.

 

[roger1818]

I distinctly remember passing through the border as a young adult with just my birth certificate. Never did show them my drivers license. It was land crossing in Detroit/Windsor while driving my car.

I remember riding my bicycle across the boarder when I was in high school with just my student card (which didn't even have my full name on it). That would never be allowed today.

 

[micheal_can]

Corporate Information | VIA Rail

VIA Rail is moving forward. As a reminder of the progress we’ve made as an organization, we provide public reports on the initiatives we’ve undertaken over the years.

corpo.viarail.ca

You can submit a question for Via's Annual Public Meeting.

 

[lenaitch]

The pre- 9/11 standard was much as it is today if flying; for land border crossings by car, the standard was a valid driver's license, passport or other provincial or federal photo identification.

* pre 9/11 much of that ID did not have associated online databases that were internet accessible. today most do.

I don't think there's anything intrinsic about a passport vs a driver's license in terms of making it more/less likely that someone will smuggle guns.
That is more determined by the rate/success of searches conducted by CBSA, and the associated charges/convictions and penalties.
The only issue whether the ID is easy to fake/verifiable.

Now here's the thing, if U.S. authorities have unfettered access to any given Canadian database (s) I can't imagine an issue from their perspective, and similarly so the other way around.

The only thing is....... that's a lot of databases and associated privacy issues.

Do we want your healthcard records available to U.S. Customs?

On driver's licenses, does this mean CBSA needs access to 50 States worth of DMV records? I assume the States would have to agree, and vice versa for 10 provinces and applicable territories.

****

I think there's merit to a somewhat less stringent/cumbersome level of border control, but the how we get there would be no small challenge.

No small challenge indeed. The US is a tad paranoid sensitive about its borders, particular since 9/11 and can hardly say I blame them. I don't expect any country to compromise what it feels it needs to do to protect its sovereignty, particularly if the issue is a bunch of tourists getting grumpy over wait times.

A passport confers citizenship; a driver's licence confers residency (theoretically anyway).

In a perfect world, I guess we would all like to move freely about it, but we can't, and at the end of the day, our ability to move beyond our own borders is in the hands of others.

Information sharing, even internationally, has gone on for years. If in the distant past when I was accessing law enforcement data, we could access some US information. It often was not 'unfettered', just certain elements. Police in Ontario have online access to a vehicle insurance database, but only to know if the vehicle is insured or not. Having said all of that, I have no idea what the CBSA or US CBP have access to.