[MisterF]

double post

 

[crs1026]

Why do you think they've been trying to kill VIA? I think they want to get out of certain businesses for sure. Kill it? Not so sure about that. But I honestly thinks this might actually be a debate we need to have. If we're going to do rail, we have to do it right. Mediocrity really helps nobody.

Governments (of all stripes) have refused since 1981 to pass enabling legislation for VIA Rail. It is not given a mandate nor is it given powers to pursue that mandate or operate in a businesslike manner of its own accord. It has never been given a legal "right to exist" or a right to grow and solidify its business. Its business plan is subject to oversight and approval in ways that constrain its efforts beyond what a business would normally experience.

I agree, it is unlikely that on a political level, a government of the day would suggest shutting the whole thing down. But, it is kept just weak and minimal enough to never become a success story.....against the day when they can trim it some more. Death by a thousand paper cuts.

- Paul

 

[steveintoronto]

But, it is kept just weak and minimal enough to never become a success story

That's being diplomatic. VIA has been a neutered eunuch from the start, unlike Amtrak:

The National Railroad Passenger Corporation (better known as Amtrak) is a for-profit corporation that operates intercity passenger rail services in 46 states and the District of Columbia, in addition to serving as a contractor in various capacities for several commuter rail agencies. [Rail service in Alaska is operated by the Alaska Railroad Corporation.] Amtrak was created by Congress in the Rail Passenger Service Act of 1970 and incorporated in the District of Columbia in 1971, assuming the common carrier obligations of the private railroads (which found passenger service to be generally unprofitable) in exchange for the right to priority access of their tracks for incremental cost. [...]

https://www.fra.dot.gov/Page/P0052

Amtrak had balls from the start. Compare that to this:

[...]
While Via is an independent federal Crown corporation mandated to operate as a business, it is hindered by the fact that it was created by an Order in Council of the Privy Council, and not from legislation passed by Parliament. If Via were enabled by legislation, the company could be permitted to seek funding on the open money markets as other Crown corporations such as CN have done in the past. It is largely for this reason that critics say Via is vulnerable to federal budget cuts and continues to answer first to its political masters, as opposed to the business decisions needed to ensure the viability of intercity passenger rail service.[3]
[...]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_Rail

It's amazing that VIA does as well as it is. Imagine if they allowed it to operate with hormones...which is what HFR is an allusion to. I hope it becomes something more with the participation and inertia of private capital, as a stand-alone corporation. Leave the existing VIA shell intact, and build something viable on top with a board of directors and a charter to compete and profit and return investment to all parties, taxpayers included. The 'taxpayers' surplus (profit) can then be plowed back into the company to further its social mandate, and private investors, making a reasonable but steady return, win two ways, especially if it's pension fund investment, by seeing the value of their investment grow, and by seeing their nation improve at the same time.

It has to happen...

 

[robmausser]

Via trains do get up to 160 in much of the Corridor, so characterizing 166 as much faster than current Via trains is a bit of a stretch.

You've got to be sarcastic.

I've taken VIA endless times between Toronto and Montreal, and we get up to 160 kmh for maybe 20 minutes tops before something, freight traffic, bad track, an upcoming station, crossings, etc cause us to slow back down to 80 km/h again.

Yes VIA does 160 km/h, but for short bursts.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

UPDATE ON THE AMTRAK – VIA CONNECTION AT DETROIT-WINDSOR

THE SITUATION
The busiest crossing point between the United States and Canada is between Detroit Michigan, and Windsor Ontario. But there is no direct connection for passenger rail travelers at this busy crossing, and since the 2003 discontinuation of The International (a joint VIA-Amtrak train between Chicago and Toronto) no passengers have crossed the Michigan-Ontario border by train. Short of taking a very expensive international taxi ride, the only option for crossing the seven-mile gaps between the Windsor VIA station and the Detroit Amtrak station requires walking two blocks from the VIA station and riding three local transit buses. This is an adventure not recommended for the faint of heart – especially in winter.

PROGRESS
With this in mind, a group of Michigan and Ontario advocates have been working with Amtrak and VIA to “mind the gap”.

We have found both companies very cooperative. As of date, we have had two teleconferences with corporate officers in Philadelphia and Montréal. Amtrak has brokered the arrangements with VIA, which is in active discussions with more than one bus operator to provide a “bus bridge” between stations. Both have agreed to pursue through ticketing for passengers on this corridor.

Border crossing by bus does not require and special arrangements, and is relatively uncomplicated.

Current indications are that this service will become available to travelers by the end of 2017. Train schedules are not ideal, but we expect that if a significant traffic is built up, minor modifications may be possible on either or both services to provide more convenient timings.

FUTURE OBJECTIVES
Naturally, many of us involved in the project would like to see through train service resumed between Chicago and Toronto. The International was discontinued due to heightened border security measures post-9-11, but optimistic discussions between Canadian and American officials at the highest levels in 2016 gave us reason to believe resumption of service would be practical. The current U.S. administration’s increased caution about entry into the country may slow the process somewhat, but we believe there is reason to expect progress because of the business opportunities that would be boosted by convenient train service along this corridor.

THOSE INVOLVED
Hugh Gurney - MARP

Larry Krieg - NARP

Charles Merckel - NARP

Jeanie Merckel - NARP

Yuri Popov - MARP

Doug Wilson - Transport Action Ontario/Canada

 

[MisterF]

You've got to be sarcastic.

I've taken VIA endless times between Toronto and Montreal, and we get up to 160 kmh for maybe 20 minutes tops before something, freight traffic, bad track, an upcoming station, crossings, etc cause us to slow back down to 80 km/h again.

Yes VIA does 160 km/h, but for short bursts.

I'm not being sarcastic at all. Via's fastest train to Montreal gets there in 4h54m, for an average speed of about 110 km/h. That includes stops and slow urban sections, so obviously the trains go much faster than that for their cruising speed. I've GPS'd it and they do indeed go 160 for much of the trip. Note that "much" doesn't necessarily mean "most".

Edit: if you exclude the slowest parts (within Toronto and Montreal) the average speed increases. Between Oshawa and Kingston for example the average speed is in the 125 km/h range. Again, that means that the cruising speed is significantly faster.

 

[steveintoronto]

The limitations are track quality, signalling, grade crossings and most importantly, freight getting in the way.

Get rid of all that and you could do Toronto to London (express no stops) in an hour and a half using the existing fleet.

I can't quite follow the doubt on this statement. I think there's a misunderstanding of intent.

With the maximum speeds limits raised, (CN imposes its own top speed, 95 mph IIRC) and a Transport Canada regime brought into the modern age (the LRC locos, now long gone, could do 125 mph, 200 kph), VIA could be allowed to do much better. The max allowed by TC regs for non-grade separated lines could be sustained. (110 mph, 177 kph, which, btw, is the defining limit for many between HFR and HSR speeds )

From Urban Toronto:
"A dedicated line would improve reliability, allow 15 trains a day between each city pair instead of the current six, and raise average train speeds, reducing the journey time from Toronto to Ottawa to 2 ½ hours from 3 ¾ hours or longer now, and from Toronto to Montreal to 3 ¾ hours from 4 ¾ or longer at present. Train maximum speeds in use would only rise from 160 to 177 km/h (100 to 110 mph), but the main speed benefits would be derived from not having to slow down when VIA trains encounter freight trains."

Report Gives Hope for VIA Rail Connections to Montreal, Ottawa
March 11, 2016 4:48 pm | by David Brake | 15 Comments

VIA Rail President and CEO Yves Desjardins-Siciliano hopes to have major improvements funded to the Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal "Corridor" in the federal budget due the 22nd, after the recent tabling of a federal review of the transportation act and the federal government's pledge to boost infrastructure spending.

Currently, freight takes precedence over passenger trains in the Corridor; the new report "Pathways: Connecting Canada’s Transportation System to the World" says a dedicated passenger line would be good for the country and would help lower highway congestion. It suggests that VIA Rail be freed to seek finance from the private sector for the $2bn cost of enabling a separate line (at present VIA Rail is not allowed to take on debt).

Figures provided by VIA Rail, Ecotrain Report

A dedicated line would improve reliability, allow 15 trains a day between each city pair instead of the current six, and raise average train speeds, reducing the journey time from Toronto to Ottawa to 2 ½ hours from 3 ¾ hours or longer now, and from Toronto to Montreal to 3 ¾ hours from 4 ¾ or longer at present. Train maximum speeds in use would only rise from 160 to 177 km/h (100 to 110 mph), but the main speed benefits would be derived from not having to slow down when VIA trains encounter freight trains.

Desjardins-Siciliano said the line could be finished by fall 2019 as around 75% of the tracks for a dedicated line could be provided either through purchase of rights of way from existing owners or rehabilitation of unused tracks. He would expect the number of passengers carried annually to rise from 2.1m to 6.8m within 15 years. Moreover, in a submission to the report, VIA Rail suggested the $317m subsidy it received in 2014 could be reduced or eliminated as a result. In addition since 2007, the federal government has provided VIA Rail with $1.2bn in subsidy for updating its infrastructure.

VIA Rail is also expected to ask the federal government to fund new rolling stock to replace the 40-year-old trains it runs on the line which would need to be replaced whether or not a dedicated line was available. New diesels would cost $1bn, while electric cars would cost $1.3bn, plus $850m for electrical infrastructure. In both cases these would be 'conventional' trains not high-speed ones. If VIA went with electric trains, it estimates it would save 10.8m tonnes of carbon over the 30 year life of the project.

The most recent study of high-speed rail in this corridor published in 2011 concluded that a 300 km/h electric train would cost $11bn to develop, half of which would have to come from the private sector, and it would take 14 years to build. Desjardins-Siciliano has said in the past he is against a new high-speed rail corridor, and VIA Rail is not pressing for this to happen. The Pathways report says that a high-speed link between Toronto and Montreal would bring net economic benefits and recommends, "dedicated passenger rail tracks that allow for eventual adoption of high-speed rail."

http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2016/03/report-gives-hope-rail-connections-montreal-ottawa

 

[SamStar]

Correct me if I am wrong, but VIA ran a Mtl-Tor Service under 4 hours (3:59).

 

[steveintoronto]

Correct me if I am wrong, but VIA ran a Mtl-Tor Service under 4 hours (3:59).

Indeed, and Urban Sky has commented on how that time has consistently eroded over the years. I'm sure he can supply the best reference, but for now:
[Currently, the fastest trains between the two cities take almost four hours.]
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=217925

[more than five hours today, compared to some four hours a decade ago.]
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/1...rail-yves-desjardins-siciliano_n_8473342.html

Btw: That vid was a tonic. And nostalgic in so many ways...thank you.

 

[urbanfan89]

Perhaps the freight train problem can be resolved by purchasing the Havelock Sub from CP, double track rebuilding it to Smith Falls, and then giving it to CN in exchange for the Kingston Sub. The Kingston Sub would still be open to freight trains serving local destinations, but for the most part Via Rail will be much freer to add services and increase speeds.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

Kingston station restoration and roof replacement

and

Appointment of Françoise Bertrand to VIA Rail Canada

and

New HRM transit plan shows commuter trains on both sides of harbour

The latest draft of a new transportation plan for the Halifax Regional Municipality includes a map with two commuter rail routes — one on each side of the harbour.

Councillors have talked about commuter rail between Windsor Junction and south-end Halifax for years. City staff are currently investigating a proposal by Via Rail.

Sam Austin, the councillor for Dartmouth Centre, said he appreciates keeping the eastern side of the harbour in mind when it comes to commuter rail, but is not holding his breath for it to start.

"I'm glad they've identified it as potential, but I can't imagine the Dartmouth one would happen before the Halifax one," said Austin. "If Halifax turns out to be a big success, then maybe after that we can look at Dartmouth."

Dartmouth line 'not same quality'
The proposed commuter rail line on the Dartmouth side runs between Woodside and the Burnside Industrial Park. Austin said a lot of people work in Burnside, plus a community college, two ferry terminals and a large number of apartment buildings sit along the Dartmouth shoreline where the tracks are located.

"But the track on the Dartmouth side is more limited. It winds and bends and the speeds are slower; it's not up to the same quality as the Halifax track," said Austin.

He thinks more rapid bus routes would be a better investment.

Details of the latest draft of the integrated mobility plan will be presented at public sessions until April 27. Staff plan to
deliver a final draft to city committees and regional council in June and July.

 

[steveintoronto]

The Halifax news obviously very good, but the Bertrand appointment is intriguing. Too soon to state my sixth-sense, but have alluded to it by just typing it. I'm going to be digging on that, not on Bertrand herself, but the implications for VIA and the Infrastructure Bank....errr....and 'spinoffs'. Nuff said, I'm just musing at this point.

Edit to Add:
Some background on Bertrand:

Françoise Bertrand, OC CQ (born 1948)[1] is a Canadian business personality. She is the first woman to head a North American television network, as CEO and president of Télé Québec, and the first woman to serve as chairperson of the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC), a position she held from 1996 to 2001. Bertrand was inducted into the National Order of Quebec in 2008 and appointed an Officer of the Order of Canada in 2013. She has served as president and CEO of Fédération des chambres de commerce du Québec (Québec's Federation of Chambers of Commerce) since 2003, the first woman to hold the position.

Biography
Born in Montreal, Bertrand holds a sociology degree from the Université de Montréal[citation needed] and a master's in Environmental Studies from Toronto's York University.[citation needed] From 1980 to 1988, she held many positions at the Université du Québec à Montréal, including dean of resource management. She was then president and CEO of Télé Québec, becoming the first woman to head a North American television network.[2] Her leadership received praise for "redirecting its educational and cultural programming to reflect the realities of Quebec society".[2][3]

In 1996, Bertrand became the first woman to serve as chairperson of the CRTC.[2] During her tenure, the "opening [of] telephone service to competition"[2] took place, as did a major May 1999 decision on "New Media" that gave the CRTC jurisdiction over certain content communicated over the Internet, such as audio and video, but not primarily alphanumeric content such as emails and most webpages.[3][4] She served as chair until 2001, when David Colville succeeded her as CRTC's interim chair.

Since 2003, she has served as the president and CEO of Fédération des chambres de commerce du Québec, Québec's Federation of Chambers of Commerce, the first woman to do so.[3][5] She is chair of Quebecor and board member of the Commission de la santé et de la sécurité du travail and FIDEC.

Bertrand has received numerous awards and honors, including an honorary degree from Concordia University.[6] Bertrand was granted the insignia of Chevalier of the Legion of Honor in 2001. In 2007, she was named in Canada's Most Powerful Women: Top 100 by Women's Executive Network (RFE).[7] In 2008, she received the insignia of Chevalier of the National Order of Quebec (NQO).[1] In June 2013, she was appointed an Officer of the Order of Canada for "her contributions to corporate governance as an administrator and role model for women".[8][2]
[...]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Françoise_Bertrand

Again, I'm just 'musing'....but she's being wasted for the role of "Chairman of the Board"...I see possibility of her being given a much more day-to-day hands-on role, and something entirely new emerging from the organization as a result....

 

[Urban Sky]

Perhaps the freight train problem can be resolved by purchasing the Havelock Sub from CP, double track rebuilding it to Smith Falls, and then giving it to CN in exchange for the Kingston Sub. The Kingston Sub would still be open to freight trains serving local destinations, but for the most part Via Rail will be much freer to add services and increase speeds.

Have you also thought about how CN trains would get from Glen Tay to their Taschereau yard here in Montreal?

 

[crs1026]

The Halifax news obviously very good, but the Bertrand appointment is intriguing. Too soon to state my sixth-sense, but have alluded to it by just typing it. I'm going to be digging on that, not on Bertrand herself, but the implications for VIA and the Infrastructure Bank....errr....and 'spinoffs'. Nuff said, I'm just musing at this point.

Edit to Add:
Some background on Bertrand:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Françoise_Bertrand

Again, I'm just 'musing'....but she's being wasted for the role of "Chairman of the Board"...I see possibility of her being given a much more day-to-day hands-on role, and something entirely new emerging from the organization as a result....

I agree....that you are just musing. Bertrand is a very credible CEO candidate, but I don't see where your belief that her appointment signals anything (beyond the fact that the job was vacant) is supported by fact. Certainly she has a track record of working the channels of power in Ottawa. That's a lot more encouraging than, say, someone with a track record of battling unions or turning companies into smaller companies by laying people off and cutting things. But conversely that may mean making decisions by conferring with Liberals in the back room and toeing the government party line above all.. That may not be activist or advocate enough to break past what is in VIA's way. Her resume certainly doesn't scream passion for passenger rail.

Most importantly, cycling Liberal friendly candidates through two year terms of office does not constitute a good strategy for building business leadership at the CEO level. Real businesses seek more CEO continuity than that. (see my earlier post about killing VIA one paper cut at a time)

- Paul

 

[steveintoronto]

Most importantly, cycling Liberal friendly candidates through two year terms of office does not constitute a good strategy for building business leadership at the CEO level.

"Most importantly" you missed the most important point. Her position is "Chairman of the Board".

By your stating "CEO" is exactly why I'm musing on this, and exactly the point I was making. Btw: She's far from being Lib Lacky. What does "Quebecor" mean to you? " Pierre Péladeau" ring any bells?

Edit to ADD: lol...and if adding the name Péladeau to the complex mix wasn't to add clarity to anything, by doing the opposite, it makes the point: Don't pigeonhole Bertrand's appointment. I don't know if this woman is looking for cushy retirement or not, she's made of bold stuff.