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1overcosc said:
Things are different for an HSR project. Nobody really cares about the Canadian. But if the federal government went in on HSR, they will have very little patience for any pesky interference from CN or CP. And they can use the full might of their regulatory control over Canadian railways if they have to.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised that if the GO RER project runs into too many roadblocks from CN/CP, Wynne gets the federal government to intervene in GO's favour.
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What is the regulatory power you believe government has ? Force lower freight rates? Hire more safety inspectors? Tear up tracks along the Arbutus Corridor?

It's a case of, don't ask a question unless you want to hear the answer. If Ottwa took the railways before a tribunal, one might not like the award. Or the precedent.

The Canadian is a good example. Ottawa fined CN for poor performance moving grain. Now we want CN to put the grain train in the siding for VIA. Can't have it both ways. Don't look for regulatory sympathy on that one.

I'm sure the government looks for quid-pro-quo - the South Halton Intermodal Terminal seems to be moving ahead, I hope Ontario got due value for not standing in the way of that one - but the railways have enforceable rights.

- Paul
 
With HSR or slower proposals that would give VIA it's own tracks it doesn't really matter what freight does. Hence the importance of passenger trains having their own tracks. I recall that the freight companies were in favour of VIAFast, although I don't have a source.

innsertnamehere said:
driving is more efficient in terms of energy expended if you have a full car too, IIRC. cars become more environmentally unfriendly when they are carrying less passengers. Costs all in (insurance, wear and tear, etc.) is generally considered to be $0.50 - $0.60 a km. The more you drive, the less that is. Insurance is essentially flat no matter how many km you put on a year, and wear and tear slows the more km you put on it (well, in terms of $/km).
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It depends. A half empty diesel hauled train with 3 cars crawling along poorly maintained track isn't going to be all that efficient. A full GO train is much more efficient than driving, electric trains more so.

Driving more may lower costs per kilometre, but it still increases costs overall. A 1200 km trip will wear your car out more than if it's sitting in the driveway.

kEiThZ said:
Here's reality. Most people consider a simple metric. Gas money. If it's cheaper to train (or just slightly over) than split gas money, the train wins. This is why I question if HSR will do well, if it's based on anything like fares that UPE had at launch. That $27.50 was justifiable as some posters have shown here. But in reality, even the $19 Presto fare didn't attract enough ridership. Hopefully we don't see $200 return fares Toronto-Ottawa. "Because the HSR competes with the airplane."
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I was simply pointing out that he neglected to account for other costs. The fact that most people do the same is beside the point.

Your HSR concerns are just as valid in every other country it's been built, but they've found ways to make it highly successful all the same. There's no reason that it would be any different here.
 
crs1026 said:
What is the regulatory power you believe government has ? Force lower freight rates? Hire more safety inspectors? Tear up tracks along the Arbutus Corridor?
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All of it. Railways are federally regulated. The government can dictate anything that happens on railways in Canada. They could easily force CP or CN to play ball with VIA even if they don't want to. They could pass all kinds of laws they would hate.

A war between CN/CP and the feds can only end in the feds favour.
 
1overcosc said:
All of it. Railways are federally regulated. The government can dictate anything that happens on railways in Canada. They could easily force CP or CN to play ball with VIA even if they don't want to. They could pass all kinds of laws they would hate.

A war between CN/CP and the feds can only end in the feds favour.
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Until the railways sue the federal government under NAFTA, the same way that TransCanada has sued the Obama Administration for US$15 billion for not approving the Keystone XL pipeline.
 
innsertnamehere said:
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/n...passenger+upgrade+toronto/11752917/story.html
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From article on HFR service plan "Via would repurpose existing rail beds or rail lines in a corridor that is already secured". Looks more and more like HFR is going to be routed through Peterborough on the active and inactive parts of the Havelock Sub, as predicted a few months back.
nIlVQft.jpg
 
Where in that article do you see mention of the Peterboro route? Did you cut that map from the article, or from another source?

- Pual
 
alexanderglista said:
From article on HFR service plan "Via would repurpose existing rail beds or rail lines in a corridor that is already secured". Looks more and more like HFR is going to be routed through Peterborough on the active and inactive parts of the Havelock Sub, as predicted a few months back.
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Given how much slower that route always was than along the lake, I'd be surprised.

Besides - who owns the Havelock subdivision? I didn't think VIA did. I'd assume that's a reference to the Brockville subdivision and/or the M&O subdivision. What else does VIA Rail own, over than the odd piece of connecting track, and some track around Ottawa, Central stations and Gare du Palais??
 
crs1026 said:
Where in that article do you see mention of the Peterboro route? Did you cut that map from the article, or from another source?

- Pual
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I made that map based on a previous 3rd party report that this route was being considered, and I pulled that quote from the Ottawa Citizen article posted above. Markster is right, there is no concrete evidence VIA is considering that route, just speculation. The quote Via would repurpose existing rail beds or rail lines in a corridor that is already secured could be an indication that the Peterborough route is being considered, due to the mention of repurposing existing rail beds (as in abandoned corridors). Not sure where on current routing abandoned lines would be restored. I agree that the current routing close to the lake is best, and that it would make most sense for HFR routing.
 
nfitz said:
Given how much slower that route always was than along the lake, I'd be surprised.

Besides - who owns the Havelock subdivision? I didn't think VIA did. I'd assume that's a reference to the Brockville subdivision and/or the M&O subdivision. What else does VIA Rail own, over than the odd piece of connecting track, and some track around Ottawa, Central stations and Gare du Palais??
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Is it anything to do with the Brockville subdivision purchased last year?
 
nfitz said:
I thought that's what I just said. What other significant trackage (or lack of track in the case of the M&O) does VIA own other than Brockville and the M&O?
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VIA owns most of the CN Chatham Sub between Chatham and Windsor; it also owns the CP Brockville sub between Brockville and Smiths Falls, the ex-CN Smiths Falls Subdivision between Smiths Falls and Ottawa, and the ex-CN Alexandria Subdivision between Ottawa and Coteau-Junction. Of course, it also owns the trackless M&O Subdivision.

Some freight is still carried on the Brockville Sub, the Alexandria Sub, and the Chatham Sub, but not much anymore.
 
I have argued this time and again. Canadian governments don't have the cojones to blow political capital on a $30 billion (full QC-Windsor, add inflation) rail program. Even thought they should. They'll do HFR, because it's easy and quick. If they can actually get this in to service by 2019, that's something that the Trudeau government can trumpet.

And that is what they'll do. Only question is, how does this fit into the London HSR plan.
 
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