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Bordercollie said:
So then the extra crews get off at Oshawa and head back to Union on westbound trains?
Click to expand...
They certainly didn’t travel East of Oshawa.

Apparently, several trains have been cancelled and I assume that’s also due to the lack of pilots and slots on the single-tracked Eastern end of the York (just as for the jaying of the remaining trains)

Travel Advisory: Due to a railway
infrastructure maintenance by the Host Railway on November 27 and 28, 2021, the line will be closed, and trains will run on a different route. Trains 643, 63, 65, 53, 55, 69, 59, 669 will incur significant delays upon arriving in Toronto. There will be no service to or from Guildwood Station on November 27 and 28, 2021. Toronto's Union Station is suggested as the closer alternative.

Here a list of the supposedly cancelled trains:

Cancelled trains

Sat, Nov 27 - 61, 67; 60, 66; 47, 645, 55; 50, 40, 46.
Sun, Nov 28 - 67; 668; 47, 645; 50, 42.

groups.io

VIA detour(?) Nov 27-28

groups.io groups.io
 
Urban Sky said:
They certainly didn’t travel East of Oshawa.

Apparently, several trains have been cancelled and I assume that’s also due to the lack of pilots and slots on the single-tracked Eastern end of the York (just as for the jaying of the remaining trains)

Travel Advisory: Due to a railway
infrastructure maintenance by the Host Railway on November 27 and 28, 2021, the line will be closed, and trains will run on a different route. Trains 643, 63, 65, 53, 55, 69, 59, 669 will incur significant delays upon arriving in Toronto. There will be no service to or from Guildwood Station on November 27 and 28, 2021. Toronto's Union Station is suggested as the closer alternative.

Here a list of the supposedly cancelled trains:

Cancelled trains

Sat, Nov 27 - 61, 67; 60, 66; 47, 645, 55; 50, 40, 46.
Sun, Nov 28 - 67; 668; 47, 645; 50, 42.

groups.io

VIA detour(?) Nov 27-28

groups.io groups.io
Click to expand...
I always thought it is short sighted of CN to only build single track bridges instead of making the whole line double tracked.
 
HighSpeedOne said:

Another article comparing the merits of high speed rail and hfr.
Click to expand...

Like so many of these articles, they don’t seem to understand that HFR and HSR serve different markets, and one doesn’t preclude the other. It is kind of like saying we shouldn’t have any highways because we have airports. I’ve said it before, but HFR competes primarily with intercity automotive travel and HSR competes primarily with intercity air travel.
 
HighSpeedOne said:

Another article comparing the merits of high speed rail and hfr.
Click to expand...
If this was simply a question of comparing the benefits, we would have already built HSR decades ago.

The question, however, is whether the incremental benefits of HSR over conventional Medium-Speeds intercity rail service (e.g. 170-230 km/h) is worth the incremental costs.

The only thing interesting about that article was the following graph:

website


As you can see, the capital cost of HFR (based on the figures provided in this article) would translate to $136 million per minute travel time saved, whereas for taking the extra step towards HSR, that metric rises to $227 million (i.e. 67% higher), as HSR supposedly represents 5 times the costs of HFR, but only 3.4 times its travel time savings:

Status QuoHFR (according to 2021 La Presse article)HSR (according to 2021 La Presse article)HSR vs. HFR (according to 2021 La Presse article)
Travel time TRTO-MTRL5:044:002:181:42 faster
Travel time MTRL-QBEC3:243:001:131:47 faster
Travel time TRTO-MTRL-QBEC (combined)8:287:003:313:29 faster
Travel time savedn/a88 minutes297 minutes211 minutes faster
Average speed TRTO-MTRL (485 km Euclidean distance)96 km/h121 km/h211 km/hn/a
Average speed MTRL-QBEC (233 km Euclidean distance)69 km/h78 km/h192 km/hn/a
Average speed TRTO-MTRL-QBEC (718 km Euclidean distance)85 km/h103 km/h204 km/hn/a
Capital costn/a$12 billion$60 billion$48 billion (cost premium)
- per minute savedn/a$136 million$202 million$227 million
 
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Bordercollie said:
Thats unfortunate. Could they not terminate trains at Oshawa or terminate half at Oshawa and half over the York Sub to Union?
Click to expand...
Surely they can have all VIA trains go to Union Station via Oshawa VIA station. Am I missing something?

A stop at Oriole/Leslie wouldn't hurt either, but understandable that they don't do that quickly.
 
VIADetourDonValley.png

Looks like the construction work on Lakeshore East gives people a new view of the city when going to and from Montreal and Ottawa. I find it crazy that at Hagerman, Doncaster, and Snider you can only head west on the York subdivision when coming from downtown. The only way onto the York subdivision east is via the Halton subdivision which is as far west as you can go and you would be heading northwest to turn east. Was there better network redundancy in the past and then it was sold off or was it always designed to all roads lead to the Toronto Yard?
 
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nfitz said:
Surely they can have all VIA trains go to Union Station via Oshawa VIA station. Am I missing something?

A stop at Oriole/Leslie wouldn't hurt either, but understandable that they don't do that quickly.
Click to expand...
They cannot of the bridge is out of commission, and there was a fatality making the repair take longer.

I wonder what's going to happen to GO trains for Monday and Tuesday?
 
Bordercollie said:
So then the extra crews get off at Oshawa and head back to Union on westbound trains?
Click to expand...
Or got cab'd back, yes.

Bordercollie said:
I always thought it is short sighted of CN to only build single track bridges instead of making the whole line double tracked.
Click to expand...
The line was designed and built for the anticipated traffic levels. Considering that they haven't had to add additional track for their own purposes, and have in fact removed one siding, it seems to me that they had anticipated correctly all those years ago.

nfitz said:
Surely they can have all VIA trains go to Union Station via Oshawa VIA station. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...
And what does CN do with all of their trains? Or GO with those on the Richmond Hill Line?

Bordercollie said:
They cannot of the bridge is out of commission, and there was a fatality making the repair take longer.

I wonder what's going to happen to GO trains for Monday and Tuesday?
Click to expand...
The accident was no where close to the bridge. As I understand it, the work on the bridge was completed more-or-less on time.

They were undercutting the track between Mile 314 and Mile 315, where the line crosses under Whites Road and Granite Court.

Dan
 
nfitz said:
I'd guess relatively service from Union to Rouge Hill or Guildwood, and then a bus bridge to Pickering, and then some trains to Oshawa.
Click to expand...

They can't service Rouge Hill - they can't access it from the east due to the accident, and it's too far away from the crossovers at Guildwood and would make service unwieldly.

There will be a half-hourly train service from Oshawa to Pickering, a bus bridge to Guildwood, and half-hourly train service from Guildwood to Union.

Dan
 
smallspy said:
The line was designed and built for the anticipated traffic levels. Considering that they haven't had to add additional track for their own purposes, and have in fact removed one siding, it seems to me that they had anticipated correctly all those years ago.
Click to expand...
One has to admire the diversity of opinions present in this forum when some commenters call CN "short-sighted" for only single-tracking the Eastern end of the York Sub, whereas other commenters insist that CN will single-track the Kingston Sub (which will still host all VIA Lakeshore traffic in addition to everything which runs over that segment of the York Sub) the very second VIA acquires a parallel route...
 
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smallspy said:
And what does CN do with all of their trains? Or GO with those on the Richmond Hill Line?
Click to expand...
Would have to work around CN.

I hadn't realised that CN was only single-track anywhere on the York-sub.

Which puzzles me - surely freight traffic on the Kingston sub can't be greater than the eastern end of the York sub. So why then is VIA so constrained on 2-track (and especially 3-track) sections of the Kingston sub?

The need for HFR through Peterborough rather than dedicated tracks for VIA puzzles me even more if CN only needs one, and at most two, tracks.
 
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