[roger1818]

Good to know that CP isn't so hostile towards passenger trains on their network.

The West Coast Express (WCE) has been running trains on CP's mainline for over 25 years now. It isn't cheap though. Not only did the WCE have to pay for all of the required track upgrades, but according to this report, in 2020 they payed $4.7 million to CP for the WCE (TransLink also paid CP another $35 thousand for something unrelated to the WCE). In case you weren't aware, WCE runs up to 5 round trips a day (weekdays only) on a 69 km route. So yes CP is willing to have passenger trains on their network, but they expect to be well compensated.

 

[Urban Sky]

The West Coast Express (WCE) has been running trains on CP's mainline for over 25 years now. It isn't cheap though. Not only did the WCE have to pay for all of the required track upgrades, but according to this report, in 2020 they payed $4.7 million to CP for the WCE (TransLink also paid CP another $35 thousand for something unrelated to the WCE). In case you weren't aware, WCE runs up to 5 round trips a day (weekdays only) on a 69 km route. So yes CP is willing to have passenger trains on their network, but they expect to be well compensated.

2020 figures are a bit meaningless, given that some of the WCE frequencies were suspended in most of 2020, due to Covid-19. Interesting therefore to see that the payment was barely higher in 2019, with a payment of $4,860,180, which (assuming 250 operating days * 5 round-trips * 2 directions = 2.500 round-trips/year) comes to a payment of $1944 per trip and $28 per revenue-km. This would be such a massive track access charge* that I assume that it also includes the crewing (Locomotive Engineers)...

*To compare: VIA's train mileage was 11.2 million km (6.9 million miles) in 2019, which at $28 per revenue-km would work out to an eye-watering $314.4 million or 81% of its total passenger revenues.

 

[JasonParis]

That makes me think Cedarvale. Are many people familiar with Cedar Brae? Perhaps Bellamy would work better.

Eglinton indeed isn't a great name any more. Not much else around there to name it after - other than Swiss Chalet.

You're right. It should be Bellamy.

 

[Frank_Lee]

2020 figures are a bit meaningless, given that some of the WCE frequencies were suspended in most of 2020, due to Covid-19. Interesting therefore to see that the payment was barely higher in 2019, with a payment of $4,860,180, which (assuming 250 operating days * 5 round-trips * 2 directions = 2.500 round-trips/year) comes to a payment of $1944 per trip and $28 per revenue-km. This would be such a massive track access charge* that I assume that it also includes the crewing (Locomotive Engineers)...

*To compare: VIA's train mileage was 11.2 million km (6.9 million miles) in 2019, which at $28 per revenue-km would work out to an eye-watering $314.4 million or 81% of its total passenger revenues.

My understanding is that Via crews actually operate the trains for Translink. The actual contract is confidential, unfortunately.

 

[roger1818]

My understanding is that Via crews actually operate the trains for Translink. The actual contract is confidential, unfortunately.

The 2019 report that @Urban Sky linked shows a $5,540,671 payment to VIA Rail Canada Inc, so you might be right.

 

[Urban Sky]

The 2019 report that @Urban Sky linked shows a $5,540,671 payment to VIA Rail Canada Inc, so you might be right.

To the best of my knowledge, VIA does the maintenance for WCE at its Vancouver Maintenance Center (see picture below), but there is extremely little overlap between the trackage VIA LEs have to be qualified for to operate the Canadian (as the only VIA route out of Vancouver) and the WCE, which makes CP the more logical choice for crewing.

Source: Andy Cassidy via Canadian Railway Observations

However, this raises the question as to what Bombardier receives $3.2 million for - is the equipment leased from them?

Source: Translink

 

[smallspy]

To the best of my knowledge, VIA does the maintenance for WCE at its Vancouver Maintenance Center (see picture below), but there is extremely little overlap between the trackage VIA LEs have to be qualified for to operate the Canadian (as the only VIA route out of Vancouver) and the WCE, which makes CP the more logical choice for crewing.

Source: Andy Cassidy via Canadian Railway Observations

However, this raises the question as to what Bombardier receives $3.2 million for - is the equipment leased from them?

View attachment 375917
Source: Translink

CP used to provide crews, with VIA providing maintenance services as well as on-demand equipment loan as necessary.

Bombardier now provides crews for WCE trains, and has for several years.

Dan

 

[roger1818]

To the best of my knowledge, VIA does the maintenance for WCE at its Vancouver Maintenance Center (see picture below), but there is extremely little overlap between the trackage VIA LEs have to be qualified for to operate the Canadian (as the only VIA route out of Vancouver) and the WCE, which makes CP the more logical choice for crewing.

Technically, there isn't any overlap between the Canadian and the WCE. Eastbound The Canadian runs on the south shore to Abbotsford and then crosses the river to Mission (optionally stopping at Mission Harbour station on the north end of the bridge). The WCE terminates at Mission City Station and are stored at sidings a bit further east on the north side of the tracks. The trains coming from the bridge can't get either the station or the sidings(without reversion) as you can see on the map bellow (hence why they use Mission Harbour Station). I guess technically they operate on the same mileposts but never on the same rails.

I have personally caught trains a both stations.

Map courtesy The Canadian Rail Atlas

However, this raises the question as to what Bombardier receives $3.2 million for - is the equipment leased from them?

According to this article, Bombardier assumed "responsibility for train operations in May 2014" for 5 years "with options for three additional five-year periods."

 

[Urban Sky]

CP used to provide crews, with VIA providing maintenance services as well as on-demand equipment loan as necessary.

Bombardier now provides crews for WCE trains, and has for several years.

Dan

According to this article, Bombardier assumed "responsibility for train operations in May 2014" for 5 years "with options for three additional five-year periods."

I guess this solves the mystery:

• Bombardier received $3.2 million in 2019 for the operation of the WCE (e.g. locomotive engineers and on-train staff)
• Canadian Pacific received $4.9 million in 2019 for providing the infrastructure required to provide the service (track access charge plus rent for stations and storage tracks)
• VIA Rail received $5.5 million in 2019 for performing the maintenance of the trainsets

Which means that (in absence of similar disclosure requirements, i.e. every supplier receiving more than $25k in a given year needs to be identified with name and amount, for VIA and GO) we still have no clue how much CP (or CN, for that matter) charges for the use of their tracks...

 

[Allandale25]

Just curious why these two sites would have such a discrepancy on the the speed of the VIA Train.

The first one is the official one from VIA and I think the second one was created by railfans. Screenshots taken moments apart.

 

[JamesKoole]

The transitdocs site grabs data every so often (five minutes?) while the VIA site is grabbing data every few seconds.

 

[Allandale25]

^ thanks

 

[APTA-2048]

Whatever they call out, It's such a better station to connect to other transit, than Guildwood.

Also the way Guildwood is located, it looks more difficult to improve TTC service to the station. Right now it’s a bit of a walk from the TTC buses. If they route buses into the station, it adds to travel time. Eglinton is basically just off the street.

 

[kEiThZ]

Also the way Guildwood is located, it looks more difficult to improve TTC service to the station. Right now it’s a bit of a walk from the TTC buses. If they route buses into the station, it adds to travel time. Eglinton is basically just off the street.

This is exactly the problem I'm referring to. And unfortunately, even as part of the RER effort, they didn't shift the station closer to Kingston.

Ellington GO or Kennedy GO are so much better. And about to get even better with the LRT.

 

[Bordercollie]

This is exactly the problem I'm referring to. And unfortunately, even as part of the RER effort, they didn't shift the station closer to Kingston.

Ellington GO or Kennedy GO are so much better. And about to get even better with the LRT.

How would VIA serve Kennedy? Unless there really is a plan to use the Uxbridge sub to get to the Havelock Sub?