[mildlyamusingusername]

It is interesting how this government is fine with spending billions on ‘sticky’ social programs but is loath to fund any infrastructure projects of their own (to their credit, they have been willing to fund provincial projects).

 

[ARG1]

https://files.ontario.ca/mto-ggh-transportation-plan-en-2022-03-10.pdf

Something of interest in the new 2051 regional transportation plan is this segment:

Assuming this is accurate, it seems like VIA HFR will be using the CP tracks in its entirety to reach Peterborough. Now this plan doesn't show how its going to reach Union from Agincourt, but at this point we're left with either A) Using the midtown sub and using the CP Don sub (the more likely variant now), or using the Stouffville Line down to Union.

 

[nfitz]

..., but at this point we're left with either A) Using the midtown sub and using the CP Don sub (the more likely variant now), or using the Stouffville Line down to Union.

Looks to me, with an absence of any red west of the Stouffville line, that they are using Stouffville.

Also, that's the first time I've seen Metrolinx acknowledge VIA HFR. If it was going down Don, Metrolinx wouldn't still be pushing the very controversial new storage area there, on the tracks VIA would need!

I wonder where the Toronto suburban station lands. Maybe they'll have to rebuild Kennedy again.

 

[robmausser]

The problem is the curves would need to be re-designed to support higher speeds later which makes it easier to do it right the first time.

THey should do the curves the first time without electrification. Electrification is still a huge undertaking in such a remote area.

 

[Allandale25]

 

[robmausser]

View attachment 384726

Again, nice, but phase it out.

Build Toronto to Smiths Falls ASAP, and use the existing VIA track through Ottawa for now.

Build the Smith Fall -> Montreal bypass next and then Montreal to Quebec.

No reason this has to be done all at once and we wait until 2030s

 

[Xav]

Again, nice, but phase it out.

Build Toronto to Smiths Falls ASAP, and use the existing VIA track through Ottawa for now.

Build the Smith Fall -> Montreal bypass next and then Montreal to Quebec.

No reason this has to be done all at once and we wait until 2030s

Why build Montréal-Québec last? It's already there.

It looks like HFR will be using the CP corridor, does that mean it would stop at Lucien-L'Allier station rather than Gare Centrale?

 

[robmausser]

Why build Montréal-Québec last? It's already there.

Demand warrants expediency, not ease of build.

 

[p_xavier]

Again, nice, but phase it out.

Build Toronto to Smiths Falls ASAP, and use the existing VIA track through Ottawa for now.

Build the Smith Fall -> Montreal bypass next and then Montreal to Quebec.

No reason this has to be done all at once and we wait until 2030s

I thought there were already phases? I remember first one being Ottawa-Montréal. Then Ottawa-Toronto, Québec-Montréal, Smiths Fall-Montréal. I might be wrong though.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Yup, I recall Ottawa-Montreal being first on the list because it's the lowest hanging fruit. Toronto-Smith Falls requires an EA for some new alignments and will take longer, while Ottawa-Montreal can get away with a much less rigorous environmental approvals process.

 

[Urban Sky]

The RFEOI document is out!

https://buyandsell.gc.ca/cds/public/2022/03/09/2af08443ae81fcea5940d166dc898c3e/ABES.PROD.PW__NB.B003.E81058.ATTA001.PDF

 

[Urban Sky]

"Significantly increase trip frequency between Major Cities (e.g. to 12–15 trains per day between Toronto and Montreal, HFR Services and Local Services combined)"

Existing frequency: 10 trips... so "High Frequency Rail" is adding a net 2 trips to the network?

"12–15 trains per day between Toronto and Montreal" would be between 2 and 2.5 times as much as the 6 trains per day pre-Covid:

 

[kEiThZ]

The Winchester bypass is not in the RFEOI....

At least based on page 22.

But I don't know if that's more of a symbolic map than the actual plan.

 

[Northern Light]

Looking at this (the REOI) leaves me unhappy.

Lets look at the ask, first:

Then this, I went to VIA's site and asked for trips from Toronto-Montreal for tomorrow:

Ignoring the absurdly long times that I take it involve a transfer in Ottawa, you still have an average travel time of ~5hrs, much worse if you include all of the above.

So this is asking, based on the data above for a travel time in the range of 4hrs 10m, or worse.

Not ok w/that, you can run that trip every 10m all-day and I'm still not ok w/that.

I'm willing to compromise on HFR vs HSR but we need to do better than that on the travel times.

How about 54M off the best time, every trip?

Get it down to 3hr59

That's not HSR, but it is a material improvement, and a believable time w/the rolling stock ordered if the project is correctly planned, built and operated.

I just find the stated goal underwhelming.

*****

Likewise, the goal for Ottawa, based on this:

Would produce a run time of ~ 3hrs 15m

I really want to see that down to 3hrs.

******

There is no point in spending all this money to under-achieve.

Sigh.

I get the arguments.

I'm pragmatic.

This is not good enough.

 

[Darwinkgo]

The whole point of the Infrastructure Bank was to be the Federal equivalent to CDPQinfra.

No. Very different roles.