ManyQuestions
Active Member
Hey that's better than the usual for Montreal-Ottawa trains! I haven't had an on time departure since pre COVID. Usually only 10-15 minutes late at the end though
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- Thread starter ehlow
- Start date
ManyQuestions
Active Member
There's at least one Ren trainset still in service. It's in really rough shape but it didn't leak in the rain when I rode it a month ago. The rest might return when they boost service this summer but I bet they'd rather use any other equipment.
I suspect the first new train will be deployed to Ottawa-Montreal-Quebec as soon as possible to get rid of the Ren coaches.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
I don't know if the LRC's are that bad. But if they were you would see them removed from service.
They should rebuilt more HEP cars while services are cut back to help fleet availability when services return.
It could be that they can't restore service because equipment is not available.
They leased GO trainsets in the past and they could do that in a pinch considering there is a surplus of their equipment. You need to either train VIA crews to operate them or use Metrolinx crews. It's not comfortable to ride the GO train from Montreal to Toronto but it might be better than not having services. You could spread people out to give them more room.
Urban Sky
Senior Member
They are already getting removed from service. Trust me, the new fleet won't arrive a day too early...
If the failure of the cancelled part of the HEP modernization has shown one thing, it's that the HEP cars are obsolete and their ability to be modernized and kept in active service is limited.
1) Metrolinx uses 575 V HEP, whereas VIA uses 480 V. Therefore, you can only use GO cars with a GO locomotive.
2) None of the locomotive types used in Metrolinx' active roster (MP40, MP54, F59) is used by VIA (F40, P42). Therefore, you can only use Metrolinx' crews.
3) Apart from trains 85 and 88 (97 and 98 don't apply, as they operate with Amtrak equipment), no VIA service completely overlaps with the service areas served by Metrolinx. Therefore, you would need to qualify Metrolinx crews to operate beyond Bayview or London.
Anyways, as long as VIA doesn't return to its full schedule, I see little reason to believe that they are getting as desperate to knock on Metrolinx' door, than they were during "Operation Axle"...
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Bordercollie
Senior Member
You can have the MP40 provide HEP power while the VIA loco pulls the train. The problem is that the train would need to be wyed.
Metrolinx crews have been qualified on the Kingston sub before when they leased trains to Quebec. It can be done. Just a matter of if there is enough of a need. You could restrict it to one route reducing the need to train crews on multiple routes. Possibly Toronto to Windsor is a good example? Since crews are already familiar with London station. There is also the ability to wye trains at Windsor.
This would free up via equipment for other routes. There would be no business class on these trains.
I'm not saying it will happen but it's the only feasible alternative as we know the 2nd and 3rd trainsets and not delivered or even built yet.
Urban Sky
Senior Member
What exactly is the problem you are trying to fix?
Bordercollie
Senior Member
More services with the lack of available rolling stock (assuming that's the reason why we can't return services to normal, which may not be the case)
Urban Sky
Senior Member
Without having worked at VIA for almost a full year by now, I would assume that they still have enough fleet left to operate the 82% schedule they operated last autumn/Christmas, which would be quite an improvement over the current 65% schedule:
Edit (2022/04/01): corrected incorrect mileage for TRTO-WDON, which showed 17,591 rather than 15,078 km for the most recent schedule, resulting in an overall figure of 67.1% rather than 65.6% of pre-Covid mileage for the entire Corridor.
I've posted above table in the GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions) thread, showing the evolution of VIA's Corridor services throughout the pandemic, to which @Allandale25 asked the following question:
The decrease in corridor mileage as of 2019-12-01 resulted from train 69 terminating in Toronto rather than Aldershot (56 km * 6 days/week = 336 timetable-km per week):
Timetable valid as from 2019/06/02 to 2019/11/30
View attachment 381599
Timetable valid from 2019-12-01 until 2020-03-16
View attachment 381600
And, as it happens, all but the following Corridor trains seem to get restored as of June 9, which strongly suggests they have enough fleet to run near pre-pandemic levels:
VIA frequency increases in June
groups.io
littlewill1166
Active Member
Bye Bye VIA Rail Passes...
They've been rebuilding HEP cars, but I don't think they think they'll be able to maintain the same level of seat capacity. Thus they've been raising prices, and as of June 30, getting rid of rail passes to reduce demand, and allow for interim service cuts (relative to pre-COVID). I doubt they're going to lease GO trainsets between now and late 2022 given what they are doing with pricing.
In the longer term, I think it's more likely that GO takes over more services in Southwestern Ontario to relieve VIA's fleet for Corridor East services
In terms of frequency, I agree with you. But, in terms of the number of seats available, there's probably a decrease with the HEP fleet going through retrofits, the replacement of 2-2 seating in the HEP2 Business Class cars with 2-1 seating, and the upcoming retirement of the REN/LRCs. In a way, this problem began back in 2019, when the HEP2 started to be sent in for renovations, and some of the HEP1s got moved from the corridor to the Ocean (because of the RENs dying) and back to Winnipeg-Churchill (which happens to correspond to when the rail passes were first watered down).
TLDR, the rail passes are being discontinued after June 30, and their replacement product isn't coming until late 2022 (when the new fleet was expected). Therefore, VIA is (or was) likely expecting to be unable to supply enough seats to meet demand under the status quo pricing strategy during that period of time.
On the other hand, the June 30, cutoff for rail passes could be because they're planning on updating the reservation system then. However, that cutoff only applies to passes purchased after January 21, with passes purchased before that being grandfathered in. Therefore, capacity issues are more likely in my opinion.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
Are they not restoring these trains because of the lack of ridership or because of the lack of fleet capacity?
Montreal - Ottawa: 635,34
Ottawa - Toronto: 43,647,644,646
Kingston - Toronto: 651,650
Toronto - Brantford - London: 82,83
Toronto - Kitchener - London: 85,88
Some of these shorter routes could be offloaded to GO transit if fleet capacity is an issue.
Montreal - Ottawa: 635,34
Ottawa - Toronto: 43,647,644,646
Kingston - Toronto: 651,650
Toronto - Brantford - London: 82,83
Toronto - Kitchener - London: 85,88
Some of these shorter routes could be offloaded to GO transit if fleet capacity is an issue.
littlewill1166
Active Member
You can control ridership by raising/lowering ticket prices. Trains 651, 650, 82, and 83 are commuter trains taken mostly by people using commuter passes. If VIA gets rid of the commuter pass, they get rid of those riders, allowing fleet capacity to meet demand. Supply and demand aren't mutually exclusive to eachother.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
With people returning to office there is demand returning for commuter services. If that's not the business VIA wants to be in then maybe they should pass the baton.
E•MO•TION
New Member
I'm curious as to whether these trains will ever return given the restrictions placed by increased GO service.
littlewill1166
Active Member
They are, many people in London who used to drive to the station, park their car, and take VIA 82 to Toronto. Now they are driving straight to Toronto or Aldershot (and taking the GO Train in). The baton has been mostly passed to the car/GO. It's not like people were sitting on their hands at home, not going anywhere. I'm going to echo what's been said here and in the TTC discussion, many who didn't have cars before COVID now have them.
The remaining people are either taking the milk run GO Train, Megabus, or fully remote working permanently.
Passing the baton doesn't have to mean directly replacing one train for another. Sometimes the optimal transportation strategy is a combination of car, bus, rail, air, or no transportation at all. You have to look at the big picture when making transportation decisions.
Moving on to GO, there are the reasons others have already stated for not using GO rolling stock. But further, many of the Bilevels are being sent to Ontario Northland and Alstom for refurbishment in the coming months. Thus, GO itself will also have an equipment shortage soon.
Rail capacity is likely going to be constrained until the end of the year, VIA and GO are telling commuters to consider alternatives in the interim based on their pricing/scheduling strategy (at least that's what I see as a former commuter, if anyone comes to a different conclusion, let me know).
crs1026
Superstar
Some of them are. I haven’t seen exact car numbers reported anywheres, but there are reports that some are already permanently out of service.
Some may be rotted out sufficently to be condemned…. beyond that, VIA will likely have already wound down its spare parts procurement for LRC specific items. At some point the junkers become the only available parts inventory. And there will be a moratorium or control process on repairs over some defined value. You don’t put new tires on the car you are about to trade in.
This being government, it wouldn’t surprise me if there is also a book-keeping override…. the whole program is a 1:1 replacement for the existing fleet, after all. Some minion in Treasury may be watching to make sure that VIA’s seat count doesn’t rise, causing some blip in the asset collumn on the balance sheet. That may sound paranoid, but I have worked in the public sector.
- Paul