[crs1026]

Halifax did a feasibility study in 2014 which found that the economics are not favourable, and the routing didn't go where people most wanted to.

http://www.halifax.ca/boardscom/SCtransp/documents/150924tsc913.pdf

Apparently VIA feels it can do the job cheaper. This may be true, in that VIA is likely paying a fair bit in fixed costs to maintain its terminal there, for only three trains a way each week. Depending on how one spreads the overheads, an added local service might use spare capacity at a very favourable price. CN's freight traffic in the area is not heavy, and I suspect they might also be interested as they could pass some of their fixed costs to the commuter service.

There will be capital needs, however. I suspect there is a presumption that this would meet Ottawa's criteria for a shovel-ready project, so the cost to the local communities might be low. Any operating deficit would be the issue.

In the end, I can't see there being a lot of ridership out there, and the highway network into Halifax isn't congested to my knowledge. So I'd say it's low probability - but I'm a long way west of there.

- Paul

 

[steveintoronto]

The idea of commuter rail in Halifax makes me wonder if this is the thinking about fleet evolution:

Next gen fleet - Corridor higher speed services
HEP2 - retired
P42s and LRCs - Kingston commuter, maybe Kitchener line, surge corridor services around holidays
F40s - split between Western longhaul, East Coast long/short haul services and Jonquiere/Senneterre
Renaissance - sleepers on Ocean, corridor stock on Halifax/Moncton services

I wrote on similar last week:

...[...][He said VIA’s unsolicited proposal for a service that would run from Windsor Junction to downtown Halifax will be presented to HRM’s transportation standing committee next Thursday.

It would then go to Regional Council for approval, and from there, Outhit hopes, be approved so staff can enter into negotiations with VIA.

“They (VIA Rail) would definitely like to discuss with us the possibility of running a commuter rail service for us, several times a day into downtown and out, and maybe some mid-day service as well at substantially less cost than was anticipated by the recent (Commuter Rail Feasability) Study,” Outhit said.

Although he couldn’t get into specifics, Outhit said if it went ahead, the commuter service would likely include the same seven stops proposed in the recent commuter rail study undertaken by the municipality.

If approved, he believes the service could be up in running in a year or less.

“It’s exciting because these folks know how to run a railroad and we’ve been looking for a partner,” he said.

In addition to helping resolve some of the traffic issues facing residents in his district, Outhit said the commuter rail plan would benefit other suburban residents in addition to businesses in the downtown core.

“It’s great that we have all these nice new buildings and businesses (downtown) and I support that. But with all of this construction going on there, unless we make it easier for people to get there, they’re of no help if they’re empty,” he said.

“This would be beneficial for people stuck in traffic from Fall River to Clayton Park, and beneficial for the downtown by getting more people down there to shop and play and to work.”]
http://www.metronews.ca/news/halifa...commuter-rail-via-eyeing-service-for-hrm.html

That VIA is so enthused on doing commuter again (even if under retention) puts a new meaning in their raison d'être. Note: "VIA’s *unsolicited* proposal". (asterisks mine).

If VIA does get new trainsets, it presents the value of giving a lot of those locos a *third refit* as they're cascaded to secondary lines. I even wonder if the LRC coaches, old as they are, are still prone for refurbishing into a the "new trainsets"?

 

[steveintoronto]

I suspect there is a presumption that this would meet Ottawa's criteria for a shovel-ready project, so the cost to the local communities might be low. Any operating deficit would be the issue.

I think you're right, and more. There's synergies far more than just farebox return. If Ottawa *is* looking at putting money into VIA (a pretty safe assumption) then VIA can only make the case look better by cascading out present rolling stock and their services to municipalities too small to normally break-even if they have to invest in all the overhead.

There's real irony in VIA returning to the roots which underpin the need for a national carrier, and doing it by affecting economy in operation and costs. Brownie points in Ottawa for VIA, and good on them.

Edit to Add: Just up at CBC:

Via Rail pitches cheaper commuter train for Halifax
'We are looking for potential partners,' says Coun. Tim Outhit
By Rachel Ward, Shaina Luck, CBC News Posted: Jul 18, 2016 1:44 PM AT Last Updated: Jul 18, 2016 2:59 PM AT

Via Rail is asking to negotiate with Halifax Regional Municipality about starting a commuter rail line. (Peter McCabe/Canadian Press)

1234 shares

Related Stories

• Commuter rail in Halifax not 'economically viable,' says report

External Links

• Commuter rail feasibility study, 2015

(Note: CBC does not endorse and is not responsible for the content of external links.)

Via Rail has pitched an unsolicited proposal to bring commuter rail to Halifax for "significantly" less cost than a plan that was rejected last year as being too expensive.

Halifax Regional Municipality has long debated operating a commuter train to relieve traffic. Most recently, a 2015 study was rejected the rail option as being too expensive.

That study, on which Via Rail based its proposal, focused on a line from Windsor Junction to downtown, with seven stops, running multiple times a day.

"I've heard from residents throughout HRM that think this is a great idea to be investigated. There's tremendous public support for rail," transportation committee member Coun. Tim Outhit said Monday.

Outhit represents District 16 Bedford-Wentworth, through which the proposed line would run.

• Halifax commuter rail system too expensive, says report

Public cost unclear
The cost in that earlier study pegged commuter rail between $36-62 million to start, with $8 million per year to operate.

There's no estimate as to how much the latest proposal could cost the municipality. Via Rail, an independent Crown corporation, is subsidized by the federal transportation department to run passenger trains across Canada.

The corporation declined an interview Monday, with a spokesperson saying by email it's looking to "assist and support" Halifax in offering commuter rail.

'Used to running railways'
The transportation committee will consider in-camera the "pre-proposal," as Outhit called it, on Thursday.

"These folks are used to running railways and of course, it would all integrate with our transit system," he said. "We'll just see what they have to offer and what price."

Outhit said he's heard from Via Rail the corporation could have it up and running within a year after negotiations are completed.

• Via Rail's $4B plan for Quebec-Ontario route opts for 'frequency' over speed

'A little bit off-guard'
The president of the union representing Halifax Transit bus drivers said he had concerns about the proposal.

"I was caught a little bit off guard, to be honest. Typically transit likes to keep things in-house," said Ken Wilson, president of ATU Local 508. "I have more questions than answers at this point."

He said he worries about the quality of existing rail infrastructure, the potential impact on bus driver jobs and added planning costs, given Halifax already approved a five-year transit plan that doesn't include rail.

'All day, frequent service' needed
Scott Edgar, with the transportation advocacy group It's More Than Buses, says he'd want to see all-day, frequent service so people will trust the reliability and make taking the train a habit.

"We'd want the train to be as cheap to operate as possible because that means it's going to be affordable to have the train operating more often," he said.

'Very good timing'
Despite the sparse details so far, Outhit says he's in favour of opening negotiations with Via Rail, especially after having "real concerns" with high costs detailed in previous studies.

"It was just very good timing for this; we are looking for potential partners," Outhit said.

"We are looking to see if there's some way we can make rail viable, and Via Rail is looking to increase their presence in Atlantic Canada."

Both the transportation committee and regional council would have to vote yes to open negotiations between the municipality and Via Rail.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...train-halifax-regional-municipality-1.3683786

Any bets that Ottawa is next, as an answer to MOOSE?

 

[dowlingm]

I think if Halifax gets commuter, given the challenges getting this service going will face, then a bunch of places could and should think "why not us".

 

[kEiThZ]

Isn't Halifax's situation rather unique though? Geography, available infrastructure, development and commute patterns, etc.

 

[crs1026]

Isn't Halifax's situation rather unique though? Geography, available infrastructure, development and commute patterns, etc.

It's not just unique, it's curious. Halifax has a favourable local economy and is projecting growth over the next decade, but neither its economic strategy document nor its transit strategy document give any suggestion that a rail commuter line is needed. A regional express bus service is under development, but the suburban areas are not subject to growth.... the city has lots of options to add density without growing outwards.

Halifax's depot and maintenance facility are pretty underloaded for the long distance service. There may be local operations staff who are underloaded also. To be a bit darker, one wonders if VIA has some job protection provisions that may have to kick in somewhere. It may be cheaper to give away commuter service to municipalities than pay severance if, say, the long distance service is trimmed (shudder).

I can't see VIA having the resources to set up an organization to run commuter services in different parts of the country. Nonetheless, it's nice to see VIA being this audacious. In previous administrations, both Treasury Board and Transport bureaucrats shot down any entrepreneurial initiatives that VIA attempted.

Personally, I'd dream of a regional intercity Maritime network before commuter rail. A friend recently commented that every drive on the Trans Canada down east seems to provoke a 500-year weather event. But that's a pricier proposition.

- Paul

 

[steveintoronto]

I was surprised at how large the Greater Halifax population has become: It's almost half a million now, and that route serves much of it well.
Today's Halifax Metro:

By: Haley Ryan Metro Published on Tue Jul 19 2016
Commuter rail could change the way people travel, but one Halifax group says it also has “city-building” power.

Tristan Cleveland of Fusion Halifax said Tuesday it was exciting to see the unsolicited commuter rail proposal from VIA Rail come out last week, and is a step towards more effective transit that Fusion, More Than Buses, and the Ecology Action Centre support.

Cleveland said commuter rail is one idea Fusion Halifax is proposing as part of dozens in The Little Easy campaign, which aims to make Halifax a city that’s fun, easy to live in, and get around.

“This is something I would hope all council candidates get behind, that this becomes … something for people to get excited about,” Cleveland said about the upcoming municipal election.

VIA’s proposal would see commuter rail run from Windsor Junction to downtown Halifax, and will go to HRM’s transportation standing committee Thursday.

Cleveland said having rail service in peak rush hour times that would whisk people past traffic on the Bedford Highway would be “fantastic,” and an important step in getting more businesses into empty office space downtown.

Rail transit isn’t just about moving people, Cleveland said, but more importantly a “city building project” creating density around the stations with walkable neighbourhoods, shops, and development.

Cleveland said local opportunities could include stations at Sunnyside Mall and Mumford, and there’s lots of “underdeveloped land” near those areas.

Long-term, Cleveland said if enough development happens then bigger investments could come in, and a second track could be added for an all-day schedule. Pairing commuter and light rail with dedicated bus lanes would make an ideal network eventually, Cleveland added.

Although Ken Wilson, head of the union that represents Halifax Transit workers, said Sunday he was worried a private company like VIA would run transit for profit and could pull out on short notice, Cleveland said that “doesn’t concern me so much” because the project could begin as a pilot.

“If (VIA) can do it at much lower capital cost … then let’s see how it works, and if one day they feel they need to pull out then the investment will have already been made,” Cleveland said.

“I don’t see that as any reason to not move forward.”

Residents weigh in on commuter rail

Metro took to social media to ask readers “do you think commuter rail can be successful in our municipality?” Here are some of your responses from Facebook and Twitter.

Absolutely! It'll reduce the traffic coming into the city significantly! Some of the coming in and out of Halifax are a complete mess during rush hour! - Leonard MacPherson

People would be able to get to and from the city without worrying about traffic or parking. It would cut down on fuel costs and produce less ozone harming gases. But it would also have to be accessible to the handicapped as well. - Cory Boudreau

I absolutely believe that commuter rail could work, but only if the cost to use the service is beneficial. For example, to use the rail I'd have to drive to a station, (presumably) park my car in a (pay to park) lot all day, then ride the train into the city - will this cost less than what I already spend in gas for my car? If not, would it really be worth the extra time I'd save from sitting in traffic? - Samantha Morpaw

Most definitely. Public transit in HRM is not working. Traffic is far worse than necessary and parking virtually anywhere in Downtown cores (HFX and Dartmouth) is horrible. Commuter rail can help alleviate all of these issues overnight. This is a far better investment than simply adding more bus routes. - Chris Wood

It could but hard to say. People complain for more buses running more often and then the drivers are riding around on empty buses because no one actually uses them. Would it be the same story - Amanda Lawlor

The infrastructure is there, let's make use of it and give Halifax a better option than the roads for commuting - @jon_mcardle

Run two lines. One to Halifax and one to Dartmouth Ferry -

http://www.metronews.ca/news/halifa...y-building-election-issue-fusion-halifax.html

There remain questions as to what rolling stock will be used, for commuter, the 'heritage stock' doesn't seem apt. I know that some posters have been wondering about the refurbished Budd RDCs in the Stratford area, and Ontario Northland may still have some of the early GO coaches surplus.

Dowling's point on other cities wanting same treatment might exhaust available coaches, even if VIA wanted to pursue other opportunities. VIA being able to do this cheaper than earlier studies indicated is mostly due to having surplus capacity. At some point, that will be exhausted, albeit that will be a good thing.

Limited One Time Offer! On that basis, if Halifax does decide against it, there will be other smaller cities avid to take VIA up on the offer. The concept might be furthered by buying new stock for VIA's mainline runs, and cascading older stock down, albeit VIA are already stretched on some shorter runs for suitable coaches. It would certainly help justify the purchase of newer stock with federal monies for the 'Corridor' if others also benefited from it, and Halifax looks like a prime case.

Would existing surplus coaches need extra doors put in to facilitate commuter rate entry/exit?

 

[dowlingm]

Personally, I'd dream of a regional intercity Maritime network before commuter rail. A friend recently commented that every drive on the Trans Canada down east seems to provoke a 500-year weather event. But that's a pricier proposition.

As far as regional services go, VIA is already proposing two routes in the Moncton area. Basing this Halifax train in Truro would mean fewer rotations than from Windsor Junction but seems a bit more "VIA-ish" than the business model proposed here.

Ken Wilson, head of the union that represents Halifax Transit workers, said Sunday he was worried a private company like VIA would run transit for profit and could pull out on short notice

A private company like VIA... does he know something we don't?

 

[steveintoronto]

As far as regional services go, VIA is already proposing two routes in the Moncton area. Basing this Halifax train in Truro would mean fewer rotations than from Windsor Junction but seems a bit more "VIA-ish" than the business model proposed here.A private company like VIA... does he know something we don't?

lol...the union reaction is over the top to be sure, but some of the Council comments are unreal also:
"Coun. Tim Outhit told Metro on Friday that, if approved by the committee, and then regional council, the service could be up and running in a year or less.".
That worries me, it's manic. Either it's going to be an amateur operation, or a make-do until something better is instituted, which is going to cost a lot more than a make-do. And if it is within a year, what rolling stock is available that suits the task? Thursday should tell a lot more on this, a lot might just be spun hype.

What remains notable is VIA's apparent change of tack in soliciting operations.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

Nomad Digital, headquartered in Newcastle, working with VIA Rail
The Northern Echo - http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/bu..._secures_Canadian_trains_WiFi_deal/?ref=fbshr

A TECHNOLOGY firm has extended a deal to deliver WiFi on Canadian trains.

Nomad Digital, headquartered in Newcastle, is working with operator VIA Rail.

Bosses say the agreement means passengers can access films, news and sport through handheld devices while on the move.

The partnership builds on a previous five-year contract and will cover VIA’s full passenger rail fleet, which transports more than 1.5 million people every year to places such as Toronto, Ottawa, Québec and Montreal.

Nomad was previously awarded a contract by Hitachi Rail Europe, which is building rolling stock at its £82m factory in Newton Aycliffe, County Durham.

Hitachi chose Nomad to fit on-board server systems for its fleet of Intercity Express Programme trains, which will replace stock on the East Coast and Great Western lines.

The servers provide a single gateway for transmission of all operational data between the train and the trackside, including information on how the train is performing, energy consumption and seat reservations.

Nomad also recently secured a deal with Swiss-based trainbuilder Stadler, to supply WiFi for stock across Switzerland, Italy, Germany and Austria.

 

[steveintoronto]

The servers provide a single gateway for transmission of all operational data between the train and the trackside, including information on how the train is performing, energy consumption and seat reservations.

Profound!

[...]The solution provides communications for critical operational applications such as positive train control, closed-circuit television, passenger emergency information, public announcement and maintenance data systems.[...]

http://nomad-digital.com/latest/pre...connectivity-solutions-to-be-discussed-at-ev/

 

[kEiThZ]

WRT Halifax, not even sure how well a single commuter line along the basin serves them. This misses out so many commuters from the Darmouth side and a whole bunch more living south and west of the city. Armdale, Bayer's Lake, etc. Not much for them. So it begs the question if Halifax paying VIA to do this really offers good value for money.

And it's also a head scratcher as to why VIA wants to get into the commuter business anyway.

 

[steveintoronto]

Councillors on the Transportation Standing Committee voted unanimously in favour of launching formal discussions to bring commuter rail to Halifax.

Halifax transportation committee backs talks with Via Rail for commuter rail

By Marieke Walsh Video Journalist Global News

The proposed commuter rail system in Halifax would stretch from Windsor Junction to south-end Halifax.

Global News

A A

Councillors on the Transportation Standing Committee voted unanimously in favour of launching formal discussions to bring commuter rail to Halifax.

An unsolicited pitch from Via Rail put the issue back in the forefront this week after a report last year suggested the idea was too expensive.

Regional Council will have to agree with the transportation committee’s direction before staff will start discussions with Via Rail.

READ MORE: Halifax councillors to debate commuter rail proposal

Long-time proponent of commuter rail, Councillor Tim Outhit said there was a lot of interest in the proposal when the committee discussed it on Thursday.

“Everybody is interested and intrigued, but we had a lot of questions, a lot of suggestions, a lot of unknowns,” he said.

Councillors had questions about how the route would operate and what it would cost, but Outhit said those questions can only be answered if staff are allowed to enter formal negotiations with Via Rail.

Via Rail’s proposal is to operate a rail line on existing tracks between Windsor Junction and south-end Halifax.

Via Rail already owns the cars that would be needed for the route, so Outhit said compared to light-rail and subways, the costs would be very low.

Last year’s report on commuter rail said startup costs would run between $36 million and $62 million, and estimated the annual operating cost would be in the order of $8 million. However, Outhit said Via Rail’s proposal is cheaper than that.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2841283/t...-backs-talks-with-via-rail-for-commuter-rail/

 

[SaugeenJunction]

Glad to see some new money flowing to VIA, even if it is a small investment. Hopefully a sign of things to come.

The Government of Canada and VIA Rail Canada announce funding for infrastructure to improve quality of service for travellers

July 22, 2016 – Ottawa – Transport Canada

The Government of Canada recognizes the importance for Canadian travellers to access a national rail transportation service that is safe, secure, efficient, reliable, and environmentally sustainable, and that meets their needs.

The Honourable Marc Garneau, Minister of Transport, and Mr. Yves Desjardins-Siciliano, President and Chief Executive Officer of VIA Rail Canada Inc., today announced a $34.4 million investment for improvements at stations and maintenance facilities in the Windsor-Quebec City rail corridor.

This funding will contribute to creating healthy communities by ensuring a safe travel service for people to see their family and friends and promoting long-term prosperity for middle-class Canadians.

The $34.4 million investment is allocated to several improvement projects as part of the federal infrastructure initiative announced in Budget 2016. At VIA’s Montréal and Toronto maintenance facilities, repairs and upgrades will be made to various mechanical and electrical systems, heating and ventilation, roof replacement, and water treatment systems. At stations in the Windsor-Quebec City corridor, upgrades will be made to various mechanical and electrical systems, heating and ventilation, roof replacement, and platform improvements. An additional $400,000 will also go towards the remediation of a federal contaminated site at VIA’s Edmonton station.

Quotes
"This investment allows VIA Rail's rail corridor infrastructure to remain safe and secure while at the same time improving the passenger experience by making it more accessible and efficient for everyday Canadians."
The Honourable Marc Garneau
Minister of Transport

"As Canada's national rail passenger service, VIA Rail Canada is an important part of the climate change solution for Canada. Our services provide an accessible and affordable alternative to cars, the funds announced today support the necessary shift we need to make towards a more sustainable transportation system. We would like to thank the government of Canada for their continued support in helping VIA Rail to be a smarter way to move people."
Yves Desjardins-Siciliano
President and Chief Executive Officer, VIA Rail Canada

Quick Fact

• The Government of Canada provided more than $395 million in annual funding in 2015-2016 to support VIA's operating and capital needs, with another $444.9 million earmarked for 2016-2017, including this $34.4 million.

http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do...0?mthd=tp&crtr.page=1&nid=1103299&crtr.tp1D=1

 

[Admiral Beez]

Speaking of the Maritimes, I recall seeing the McAdam train station and feeling sad for the old place, being abandoned by VIA rail in the mid-1990s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McAdam_Railway_Station