[felix123]

Urban Toronto gets action.

Government of Canada advances the procurement process for High Frequency Rail

High Frequency Rail will transform passenger rail service in Canada through the creation of a faster, more frequent, accessible, and sustainable rail service among the major centres of Québec City, Trois-Rivières, Montréal, Ottawa, Peterborough, and Toronto.

www.canada.ca

I don't think a year-long period is warranted for this particular RFQ. Unless someone knows if this is a federal standard that needs to be followed.

 

[cplchanb]

Urban Toronto gets action.

Government of Canada advances the procurement process for High Frequency Rail

High Frequency Rail will transform passenger rail service in Canada through the creation of a faster, more frequent, accessible, and sustainable rail service among the major centres of Québec City, Trois-Rivières, Montréal, Ottawa, Peterborough, and Toronto.

www.canada.ca

i wonder what the current schedule for RFP is.... i bet theyre timing it to their election cycles and the industry is calling their BS.

 

[felix123]

i wonder what the current schedule for RFP is.... i bet theyre timing it to their election cycles and the industry is calling their BS.

I was thinking the same. There's no other reason this process should be taking this long, other than to schedule it as an election process.

 

[Allandale25]

i wonder what the current schedule for RFP is.... i bet theyre timing it to their election cycles and the industry is calling their BS.

Someone mentioned on the Rail Fans Canada Discord group that they think the timeline has moved up.

Original:

Discord - Group Chat That’s All Fun & Games

Discord is great for playing games and chilling with friends, or even building a worldwide community. Customize your own space to talk, play, and hang out.

discord.com

New:

Discord - Group Chat That’s All Fun & Games

Discord is great for playing games and chilling with friends, or even building a worldwide community. Customize your own space to talk, play, and hang out.

discord.com

 

[cplchanb]

Someone mentioned on the Rail Fans Canada Discord group that they think the timeline has moved up.

Original:

View attachment 436199

Discord - Group Chat That’s All Fun & Games

Discord is great for playing games and chilling with friends, or even building a worldwide community. Customize your own space to talk, play, and hang out.

discord.com

New:

View attachment 436200

Discord - Group Chat That’s All Fun & Games

Discord is great for playing games and chilling with friends, or even building a worldwide community. Customize your own space to talk, play, and hang out.

discord.com

I have a feeling that the final investment decision stage will take forever and will be heavily affected by the current govt at that time. shame.

 

[Allandale25]

Just got this by email. The "here" link URL is below for what I think is a report. Haven't had time to review.

Request for Expressions of Interest (RFEOI) Update - hfr-tgf.ca

High Frequency Rail (HFR) is world-class transportation infrastructure that puts people first. Know more about it now.

hfr-tgf.ca

Hello,



Recently, you have expressed your interest in receiving the latest information on the high frequency train project. The HFR Integrated Project Team would like to share with you the details of the latest milestone, the closing of the Request for Expression of Interest (RFEOI)



On October 31, 2022, the Government of Canada released the RFEOI update. This follows up on the RFEOI that was released March 10, 2022, to seek advice and views from industry on the High Frequency Rail project – responses were requested by May 31, 2022.



Over 50 industry participants submitted expressions of interest, and Canada has reviewed these responses and gathered information to inform next steps in the procurement process.



The RFEOI process was successful, as Canada obtained meaningful feedback from Interested Parties. Core elements of the proposed procurement approach and deal structure were validated and will remain unchanged. Canada is using the feedback received to refine the project requirements, the deal structure and the anticipated procurement and co-development processes and timelines.



This update summarizes key themes stemming from the RFEOI process and provides additional information, clarifications and changes to some elements of the HFR Project and its anticipated Procurement Phase prior to the expected launch of the RFQ.



Click here to learn more about the RFEOI Update

 

[nfitz]

Hmm, that's interesting:

"The alignment is not yet chosen by Canada – proponents will have flexibility to develop an alignment that maximizes project outcomes, including higher speeds on some segments"

 

[Bordercollie]

Hmm, that's interesting:

"The alignment is not yet chosen by Canada – proponents will have flexibility to develop an alignment that maximizes project outcomes, including higher speeds on some segments"

So the RFQ will be released in early 2023 and will require responses by summer, chosen short listed by winter and awarded in 2024. This would be if it happened really quickly.

 

[Allandale25]

Hmm, that's interesting:

"The alignment is not yet chosen by Canada – proponents will have flexibility to develop an alignment that maximizes project outcomes, including higher speeds on some segments"

And there's also this reference to the alignment:

 

[Northern Light]

Someone mentioned on the Rail Fans Canada Discord group that they think the timeline has moved up.

Original:

View attachment 436199

Discord - Group Chat That’s All Fun & Games

Discord is great for playing games and chilling with friends, or even building a worldwide community. Customize your own space to talk, play, and hang out.

discord.com

New:

View attachment 436200

Discord - Group Chat That’s All Fun & Games

Discord is great for playing games and chilling with friends, or even building a worldwide community. Customize your own space to talk, play, and hang out.

discord.com

If you examine the differences in the above, the timeline hasn't shifted much.

Delay RFQ from Sept '22 to Jan '23 delayed 4 months

RFP likely June instead of April '23 suggesting a marginal shortening of RFQ time in market. (now down to delayed 2 months)

RFP time in market goes from 18 months to 9 months, thereby leaving you seven months ahead.............but......

Codevelopment increases from 3 years to 3.5 years; an increase of six months.

If my math isn't off, that's a total advancement of 1 month.

 

[crs1026]

It’s interesting how much flexibility the proponents will be allowed in proposing routing. Section 3.3 invites use of road, hydro, or utility corridors. That’s not a bad idea, it’s just less than definitive. There is a specific reference to Peterboro, at least.

Similarly, proponents have a lot of flexibility to propose reliability metrics and trip times (pg 31)

One wonders what the JPO has been doing all this time with its $79M budget. One was led to believe that the proposed route and trip times were laid down early, and the JPO was doing technical validation of engineering, cost, and operability and assessing marketability and likely demand/revenue scenarios, ultimately to validate ROI. It seems the scope has been thrown wide open with any and all proposals welcome.

That may not be a bad thing, but it certainly seems that Ottawa is unwilling to take a stand or cite expert opinion on any of the merits or parameters of the system, preferring to let proponents tell them what to buy and why.

As for the curiosity of the railfan community, the report indicates that proposals are not required to divulge what brand of rolling stock will be used, or even which company is contracted to provide it (but the proponents are welcome to do so if it helps their pitch).

It feels a bit like asking the server, “Is the fish good here?”

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

^ I missed the specific reference to Peterborough. Maybe I should have been searching for "Peterboro"?

Re hydro corridors

I wonder if they'll be able to access the electro magnetic field study CN-Metrolinx did for the bypass corridor?

 

[Bordercollie]

It’s interesting how much flexibility the proponents will be allowed in proposing routing. Section 3.3 invites use of road, hydro, or utility corridors. That’s not a bad idea, it’s just less than definitive. There is a specific reference to Peterboro, at least.

Similarly, proponents have a lot of flexibility to propose reliability metrics and trip times (pg 31)

One wonders what the JPO has been doing all this time with its $79M budget. One was led to believe that the proposed route and trip times were laid down early, and the JPO was doing technical validation of engineering, cost, and operability and assessing marketability and likely demand/revenue scenarios, ultimately to validate ROI. It seems the scope has been thrown wide open with any and all proposals welcome.

That may not be a bad thing, but it certainly seems that Ottawa is unwilling to take a stand or cite expert opinion on any of the merits or parameters of the system, preferring to let proponents tell them what to buy and why.

As for the curiosity of the railfan community, the report indicates that proposals are not required to divulge what brand of rolling stock will be used, or even which company is contracted to provide it (but the proponents are welcome to do so if it helps their pitch).

It feels a bit like asking the server, “Is the fish good here?”

- Paul

As long as they can meet the service requirements and meet the required specifications does it matter?

Now the question is what happens if the fleet doesn't meet the required availability standard.

 

[crs1026]

^ I missed the specific reference to Peterborough. Maybe I should have been searching for "Peterboro"?

LOL….. it’s on page 4, “ough” and all.

Re hydro corridors

I wonder if they'll be able to access the electro magnetic field study CN-Metrolinx did for the bypass corridor?

There are a couple of major hydro corridors between Toronto and Ottawa, but they are quite rugged and cross through cottage country in places that would not be train-friendly. I can’t imagine they would be anyone’s serious first choice, but I guess the politics are such that it’s better to not eliminate anything just yet.

Certainly preferable to Metrolinx’s “we have already landed on the best option and discussion is pointless”. I would hope the JPO has a more informed view of things behind the scene.

- Paul

 

[Bordercollie]

LOL….. it’s on page 4, “ough” and all.



There are a couple of major hydro corridors between Toronto and Ottawa, but they are quite rugged and cross through cottage country in places that would not be train-friendly. I can’t imagine they would be anyone’s serious first choice, but I guess the politics are such that it’s better to not eliminate anything just yet.

Certainly preferable to Metrolinx’s “we have already landed on the best option and discussion is pointless”. I would hope the JPO has a more informed view of things behind the scene.

- Paul

It doesn't make sense to build a corridor in a place where nobody lives no matter how cheap it is. Unless you are generating demand by building communities around those stations.

Or use the Kingston Sub for trains between Toronto and stops inbetween and HFR for express services with only Peterborough and Kingston (north) as stops.

But that would not serve the needs of a majority of people and would defeat the purpose of building it in the first place.