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roger1818 said:
I’m not convinced that Superliners provide all that much of an increase in passenger capacity compared to a single level coach of the same size. First of all, the lower level is restricted to the space between the bogies Then you need to subtract off the space taken up by the stairs and lifts, on both levels. Yes there is some increase in capacity, but compared to the extra material required (and thus extra weight), I’m not convinced they are more efficient, especially in an age where fuel costs are becoming more and more significant.

Getting back to VIA, I hope there is an option for them to purchase dome cars (to replace the skyline and park cars), as the 360 degree vista they offer is spectacular (and something Superliners don’t offer, as the cars in front and behind you are the same height).
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If you look at the new trains in Europe and Japan they are mostly double deckers and that is likely to increase capacity.
 
^Considering that Amtrak has a fleet of single level long distance trains, I'm sure that they have considerable data on the relative costs of each type.

There is also the challenge of finding someone who can build a 2-level car.these days.

- Paul
 
roger1818 said:
Getting back to VIA, I hope there is an option for them to purchase dome cars (to replace the skyline and park cars), as the 360 degree vista they offer is spectacular (and something Superliners don’t offer, as the cars in front and behind you are the same height).
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I second this. The Skyline and Park cars have superior sightseeing - as well as good general lounge space. Hopefully something can be replicated.

- Paul
 
Bordercollie said:
Really? Considering that they pay to use the track per axle? Is that a wise decision?
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Apparently a large part of the driver is accessibility.

As Urban Sky pointed out earlier, the Superliners are "accessible", in that the lower level accessible room is accessible. The rest of the train is not. People in wheelchairs are cooped up in their room for the full trip.

It seems that the new goal is to make the full length of the train accessible.

Bordercollie said:
If you look at the new trains in Europe and Japan they are mostly double deckers and that is likely to increase capacity.
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If you look even more closely, you'll see that most of the new trains are only partially double-deck. And there are still a whole lot of single-decked trains still being built today

crs1026 said:
^Considering that Amtrak has a fleet of single level long distance trains, I'm sure that they have considerable data on the relative costs of each type.

There is also the challenge of finding someone who can build a 2-level car.these days.

- Paul
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Indeed. It seems that the whole Calidot corridor equipment fiasco really brought to the forefront just how hard it is to meet the new regulations. Even the Venture cars are considered "overweight" by the strictest definitions of those regs, and have needed to be "allowed" in order to be made legal for tender responses.

Dan
 
kEiThZ said:
Good for Europe and Japan. Irrelevant to North America, unless somebody is willing to spend the money to get them certified here and build the production lines necessary.
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I will disagree and agree on that from my travels.

All intercity/Country trains are mostly single level trains up to 20 cars longs. France has a large number of DD trains that are country to country compare to other countries. You will find the odd DD train going from country to country similar to GO, but mostly single. All my trains have been single and some of that has to do to the fact they are high speed train.

Our last leg of a trip from Copenhagen to Hamburg by 3 different train last year was an GO style RER 1:5 hour trip since lack of direct trains seating for that day. All our other trips for Italy, Switzerland, Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium and France were all single level trains last year.

Did a trip from Zurich to Geneva and back on a GO style train back in 2012 and not a nice ride.

You will find S-Bahn/RER both single and DD from 3 to 10 cars long based on GO style that are mostly EMU's . Some have locomotives at both ends, are like GO setup, to fully EMU's. Fully EMU's are mostly 3-5 car trains that are MU up as 4 sets of combinations

Have seen combination of single and DD equipment on one train 11 cars long being pull by an locomotive with no cab car. The video is up on YouTube of it shot in Brussels.

Basely, the equipment is the same as GO equipment, but fails to meet Amtrak requirements. Because of tunnel's requirements, the tops of the cars are more round and less standing height for the window seat rider over 6' that I have hit my head on the upper level a few times using any DD car.

GO new cab cars are a Europe model car that I first saw back in 2012 that were built by Bombardier Europe.

Until NA starts allowing Europe standards for Train equipment, VIA, Amtrak and other systems have to built over weight equipment.

Since Amtrak is going to market for new equipment, they should be pushing for Europe Standards to meet accessibility needs,. Those riders will be confined to the lower level at all times with very little travel area. Very costly as well lost of space to have an elevator in a car to get to the upper level. Having an accessibility rider on the upper level is a huge safety factor as much I support accessibility rider needs, it a no go.
 
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I’ve been on Superliners a few times in coach and in sleeper class, and while I really like the equipment, I agree that the double deck design has its issues. They are not used on most routes east of the Mississippi as they are unable to fit certain clearances around New York and Baltimore. Central Station in Montreal might also be a challenge.

As long as there are good lounge spaces with big windows (ideally full-length dome-type windows) I don’t mind a modern design.
 
Aylmer said:
I think Montreal will be fine - the EXO trains are already double decker.
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Superliners are still a bit higher, if you look up the height of various car types on Wikipedia:

Bombardier MultiLevel Coach (used by Exo): 14 ft 6 in (4.42 m)
HEP dome cars (Skyline and Park): 15 ft 10 in (4.83 m)
Bombardier BiLevel Coach (used by GO and Exo): 15 ft 11 in (4.85 m)
Superliner: 16 ft 2 in (4.93 m)

Considering that they can’t operate HEP dome cars and BiLevel Coaches under catenary in Gare Centrale, 8-10 cm might make the difference between “fits” and “doesn’t fit safely”…
 
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Urban Sky said:
IConsidering that they can’t operate HEP dome cars and BiLevel Coaches under catenary in Gare Centrale, 8-10 cm might make the difference between “fits” and “doesn’t fit safely”…
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Uhhhh, come again? And where did (does) the Ocean stop in Montreal?

That said, you are still right about the height being an issue - for instance, the trainshed at Winnipeg is high enough to handle the Budd dome cars, but not high enough to clear a Superliner.

And there's potentially a bigger issue/concern with the Superliners - how does one enter one from a high-level platform? They do not have steps at their doorways/vestibules.

Dan
 
Bordercollie said:
If you look at the new trains in Europe and Japan they are mostly double deckers and that is likely to increase capacity.
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i cant count the number of double decker trains in japan with 1 hand. dont recall them having any new double decker trains save for the green cars.
 
smallspy said:
Uhhhh, come again? And where did (does) the Ocean stop in Montreal?
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Only 3 or 4 of the 12 tracks at Gare Central are electrified.

That said, I have no idea which platform The Ocean uses, nor the route it takes into and out of the station.
 
cplchanb said:
i cant count the number of double decker trains in japan with 1 hand. dont recall them having any new double decker trains save for the green cars.
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This was really surprising during the 3 weeks where I travelled Japan extensively with my wife by rail: the only double-decler cars we ever saw were indeed the double-decker green cars of certain variants of the E233 series you could find on certain RER lines in Tokyo. Here the photo of a model train for visualization:
150651_19.jpg


rbt said:
Only 3 or 4 of the 12 tracks at Gare Central are electrified.

That said, I have no idea which platform The Ocean uses, nor the route it takes into and out of the station.
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As I wrote, no dome cars can fit under catenary wires within Gare Centrale, but there was no issue outside the relatively low station area as the wires were hanging higher…
 
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Allandale25 said:
Announcement tomorrow.

Government of Canada to make an important announcement about the next steps on High Frequency Rail - Canada.ca

The Minister of Transport, the Honourable Omar Alghabra, the Minister of Canadian Heritage and Quebec Lieutenant, the Honourable Pablo Rodriguez, and the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport, Annie Koutrakis, will make an announcement on the next steps in the High Frequency Rail...
www.canada.ca www.canada.ca
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Another study
 
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