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We won't get anywhere if we treat transit purely as a response to pent up demand. Transit induces demand just like auto infrastructure does, and the better service is the more demand is created for it. Frequent intercity transit between two important cities is a basic aspect of infrastructure that you don't see people regularly question the existence of, except in North America. The job of today's transit projects is to create the ridership patterns of the 2030s and 2040s, not to wait for ridership and then build after, or ridership will never happen.
 
I wonder at which point it would be worth it for VIA to acquire exo's brand new maintenance facilities in Montreal. Maybe if electrification happens.

It may never make sense. VIA's facilities were built in the mid 1980s and to VIA's specific specs, and realistically not very much has changed in the world of railroad equipment maintenance since then.

Dan
 
It may never make sense. VIA's facilities were built in the mid 1980s and to VIA's specific specs, and realistically not very much has changed in the world of railroad equipment maintenance since then.

I suspect that what’s contemplated is much smaller than it sounds. Adjust roof vents, location of power and air lines, jacking points, etc recognizing fixed length consists and dimensions of the new equipment and any new workflows. Maybe some tooling or test gear associated with the Charger locomotives.

- Paul
 
We won't get anywhere if we treat transit purely as a response to pent up demand. Transit induces demand just like auto infrastructure does, and the better service is the more demand is created for it. Frequent intercity transit between two important cities is a basic aspect of infrastructure that you don't see people regularly question the existence of, except in North America. The job of today's transit projects is to create the ridership patterns of the 2030s and 2040s, not to wait for ridership and then build after, or ridership will never happen.

Your point is well taken and certainly has validity. Just because a new freeway wouldn't get as heavily used as the 401 doesn't mean it isn't needed.

The problem, as always, comes down to money. We have a finite amount of money to use on transportation and hence we have to make sure that we get "the most bang for the buck". Is it better to spend $10 billion on HSR which will serve 10,000 riders a day most of whom are tourists or business travelers who don't pay for it anyway or spend that same amount on urban transit that would move millions of passengers a day while serving your average Canadian?
 
Your argument has validity as well, but I don't think it should be taken to the extreme it currently is. Smaller cities and towns having horrible transit is a major factor in internal migration to larger centres, and ultimately facilitates the decay of smaller cities and selects for them to be inhabited by increasing numbers of F150 driver types. It sharpens the rural urban divide and makes it even harder to leverage provincial and federal money for transit investment, because people who don't have or don't take transit don't see the value in it, aren't personally invested and are especially likely to resent "their" money being spent somewhere else. It's not like there's a set amount of funding transit can have, it's just a matter of how much politicians feel they can win support by bribing people with it.

The more important transit is as a social issue, ultimately the more money will be available. This means that a large section of the population needs to be won over to transit even if they don't ride it every day. Intercity transit is far, far more important for rural people because for rural people basically all travel is intercity travel on some level, as genuine urban transit is really only possible if you have an urban area of a certain size already. If people have a car free way of getting to cities, they're also far less likely to drive around in them, which helps ease congestion and drive up ridership for urban systems.

I think another very Canadian dimension to the issue is the relentless Calvinism around what transit should be for. The ideal is often grim people taking the bus to work at 7am, not people visiting grandparents in their small hometown, tourists going hiking in a provincial park. Culturally people still see not owning a car as a personal moral failure, and that car free people should be confined to whatever city they live in and not allowed to leave.
 
Your argument has validity as well, but I don't think it should be taken to the extreme it currently is. Smaller cities and towns having horrible transit is a major factor in internal migration to larger centres

I'd say lack of jobs is the primary factor.
 
I'd say lack of jobs is the primary factor.

Doubtless it is; but the next question would be why?

Why are the jobs going elsewhere? Part of that is critical mass of population, which will certainly never be achieved by every community.

But part of it; and part of the reason some populations stagnate rather than grow is lack of certain services, such as healthcare (many small towns won't have access to cancer treatment, or MRIs or any number of forms of medical specialty.; likewise access to post-secondary education is an impediment and so is transit in so far as that impairs the preceding or the ability of some to get to/from a given job.)

That doesn't mean we built inter-city rail service or higher order transit to everywhere; anymore than we're going to put a teaching hospital in Bobcaygeon. But we also don't fail to provide medical and education services there at a basic level; and we ought to explore greater access to those same services through telemedicine and elearning and so on. Likewise some level of transit and intercity transportation is somewhere between profoundly useful and necessity to most smaller communities.

It is of course, striking the right balance and prioritizing limited funds thoughtfully that is key.

But that shouldn't used as an excuse to abdicate public responsibility either.
 
I wonder at which point it would be worth it for VIA to acquire exo's brand new maintenance facilities in Montreal. Maybe if electrification happens.

Why do they have to do a 'market sounding'? Why can't they just go to a RFQ and then RFP? Or is a 'market sounding' similar to a RFQ?
 
I suspect that what’s contemplated is much smaller than it sounds. Adjust roof vents, location of power and air lines, jacking points, etc recognizing fixed length consists and dimensions of the new equipment and any new workflows. Maybe some tooling or test gear associated with the Charger locomotives.

- Paul

It's going to be less involved than even that.

The maintenance centres were all built to be able to provide light servicing for complete trainsets intact. The roof vents are already well located to handle a variety of different locomotive designs, and won't have any issue with the Chargers. Wheelsets will drop out just as easily as any car that already exists in service today.

It may involve moving a couple of things here and there, but by-and-large the amount of work necessary is fairly minimal. They may in fact be taking this time to update and upgrade the 30+ year old equipment currently installed and framing it under the umbrella of "Modernizing for a new fleet".

Dan
 
hey may in fact be taking this time to update and upgrade the 30+ year old equipment currently installed and framing it under the umbrella of "Modernizing for a new fleet".

If VIA is anything at all like the military, this is exactly how things are done. New infrastructure is booked under the acquisition of a new fleet. Buying new airplanes? Book the new hangars you've wanted for 20 years under this new fleet acquisition.
 
If VIA is anything at all like the military, this is exactly how things are done. New infrastructure is booked under the acquisition of a new fleet. Buying new airplanes? Book the new hangars you've wanted for 20 years under this new fleet acquisition.

It's not just the military. Most government agencies operate like this. TTC, STM.....

When the money only flows sporadically, you need to be ready at the tap to collect it all, right?

Dan
 
^Makes perfect sense to fund and book life-cycle costs for maintenance equipment and facilities at the same time as the capital costs for the trainsets. Some stuff may be worn out. Also I imagine VIA may have a list of improvements that they have generated based on the last 35 years' experience, and there may be some subtle differences in minor details that the new trainsets imply..... is the water tank pipe and the blue and grey water drain in exactly the same place on the carbody as for LRC's and HEP's, does the AC unit line up with the current overhead and undercar work stations, that kind of thing.

- Paul
 
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^Makes perfect sense to fund and book life-cycle costs for maintenance equipment and facilities at the same time as the capital costs for the trainsets. Some stuff may be worn out. Also I imagine VIA may have a list of improvements that they have generated based on the last 35 years' experience, and there may be some subtle differences in minor details that the new trainsets imply..... is the water tank pipe and the blue and grey water drain in exactly the same place on the carbody as for LRC's and HEP's, does the AC unit line up with the current overhead and undercar work stations, that kind of thing.

- Paul

In some of those cases, the decision has already been made for them simply by going to a new supplier. And in other cases, it's due to the general current trends in the industry.

Back when the LRC cars were built, much as it had been for the preceding 40 years of railcar construction, HVAC systems were built with the major components underneath the cars, and hung from the floor. The current trend in the past 15 years or so has been to move to modularized units mounted in the roofline. Just that change along will result in some changes to how the cars are handled in the shops.

Dan
 
That's the only way I see it too.

CN will double the track between the Deux-Montagnes-Mascouche Line junction and the Taschereau yard as part of a temporary measure to allow 3 departures per day of the Mascouche Line to reach Gare Centrale. About 6 km of new track + 1 bridge for $30 million.

Not directly related, but clearly will be handy for HFR.
 

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